the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

@ Co-lee: Thanks for your contribution.

Graham, I'm not trying to suggest sexual assault or anything similar. Just saying it's an environment that is not friendly towards women. That's not the central idea in what I was trying to describe: a skilled practitioner and teacher who seems to have headed off in some unpleasant directions.

Giles wrote:@ Co-lee: Thanks for your contribution.

You're welcome. I just wanted to share some of what I'd seen in person. Both the good and the less good.

Martial art videos of any kind from anyone seem to draw reactions oftentimes based mostly on subjective biases regarding the personality and presentation of the performer, rather than offering any real substantive assessment of the video content. These are usually knee jerk reactions at best.

The obvious realization that others do things differently or explain things differently than we prefer to doesn't nullify our own experience or understanding of the subject matter in any way whatsoever. Others don't have to be proven wrong in order to prove ourselves right, thereby justifying the differences. Kudos to anyone who doesn't do that.

We are all exactly where we have earned the right to currently be based upon the results of our own study and training efforts thus far. Only you can train for you. Thus, everything and everyone else is essentially irrelevant.

Doc Stier wrote:Martial art videos of any kind from anyone seem to draw reactions oftentimes based mostly on subjective biases regarding the personality and presentation of the performer, rather than offering any real substantive assessment of the video content. These are usually knee jerk reactions at best.

The obvious realization that others do things differently or explain things differently than we prefer to doesn't nullify our own experience or understanding of the subject matter in any way whatsoever. Others don't have to be proven wrong in order to prove ourselves right, thereby justifying the differences. Kudos to anyone who doesn't do that.

We are all exactly where we have earned the right to currently be based upon the results of our own study and training efforts thus far. Only you can train for you. Thus, everything and everyone else is essentially irrelevant.

Yes, that's always a nice attitude to fall back on in order to avoid uncomfortable truths.

It's hard being in another Timezone so much has been said
Firstly 4 oz (light touch of no specific amount)is in defence not response
Response is your opponents attack plus 4 oz
The list of those with the goods is one on the most part I don't agree with
I won't name who because that only upsets the fan boys
Co-lee what you say seems legit however if you have been training 35 years and still went to a
Adam I would question your previous training
4 oz does not have to be felt it can be seen in your structure and how you set up your demos
A student should be stung often and hurt occasionally
To hurt on a regular basis shows a lack of skill and a desire to use Pavlogs dog

That's fair, Wayne. Started in 1983 so it's going on 40 years now. Like I said, I'm nothing special: not particularly talented or skilled. But, I enjoy the practice.

I wanted to learn Huang's loosening exercises and at the time, Adam was the only available source. As I said, he also showed me some other things that helped fill in some holes in my understanding. I'm glad I worked with him for a bit. And I'm glad I'm not involved in that scene at all now.

co-lee wrote:Graham, I'm not trying to suggest sexual assault or anything similar. Just saying it's an environment that is not friendly towards women. That's not the central idea in what I was trying to describe: a skilled practitioner and teacher who seems to have headed off in some unpleasant directions.

Sure, I appreciate that this is not your central idea, but you can't just drop a statement like that in without some sort of qualification.

And if you're not saying something at least connected to sexual assault, then I'm not sure what "an environment that is not friendly towards women." means... or do you mean it's just that they won't teach women?

The 5 exercises will teach a great deal
See if you can find someone teaching them in their original sequence and manner
You will get even more out of them
Where are you situated

Bhassler wrote:

Doc Stier wrote:Martial art videos of any kind from anyone seem to draw reactions oftentimes based mostly on subjective biases regarding the personality and presentation of the performer, rather than offering any real substantive assessment of the video content. These are usually knee jerk reactions at best.

The obvious realization that others do things differently or explain things differently than we prefer to doesn't nullify our own experience or understanding of the subject matter in any way whatsoever. Others don't have to be proven wrong in order to prove ourselves right, thereby justifying the differences. Kudos to anyone who doesn't do that.

We are all exactly where we have earned the right to currently be based upon the results of our own study and training efforts thus far. Only you can train for you. Thus, everything and everyone else is essentially irrelevant.

Yes, that's always a nice attitude to fall back on in order to avoid uncomfortable truths.

That's an absurd comment! I offered no opinion on the OP video whatsoever, either positive or negative, since I have no dog in that fight.

There are no "uncomfortable truths" for me to avoid.

wayne hansen wrote:The 5 exercises will teach a great deal
See if you can find someone teaching them in their original sequence and manner
You will get even more out of them
Where are you situated

Wayne -- I continue to find the 5 loosenings valuable and would love to get some more instruction on them.
The push hands patterns, cai-an and 7 point push, have also taught me a lot although for 7 points in particular I don't feel like i have a good understanding. And no push hands for the last year ... I didn't find the bits of form Adam taught me useful: too much like what I was already doing with too many changes that didn't seem to add anything over the drills. The 5 loosenings though, those are good.

I'm in Colorado in the US -- there aren't a lot of Huang lineage people around that I know of. Most that I know of are from the Adam workshop scene. James Lau King has come to LA a couple times. Rasmus had a workshop booked on the east coast and then had visa problems.

7 point push is a rare gem but not how I see it done today
All of Huangs pushing exercises are real gems
3 I would practice above all are
7 point
Single arm drop
Double Shoulder with no ward off
It's a pity that Huang had such a large following and yet there are so few of his senior students about today

Doc Stier wrote:

Bhassler wrote:

Doc Stier wrote:Martial art videos of any kind from anyone seem to draw reactions oftentimes based mostly on subjective biases regarding the personality and presentation of the performer, rather than offering any real substantive assessment of the video content. These are usually knee jerk reactions at best.

The obvious realization that others do things differently or explain things differently than we prefer to doesn't nullify our own experience or understanding of the subject matter in any way whatsoever. Others don't have to be proven wrong in order to prove ourselves right, thereby justifying the differences. Kudos to anyone who doesn't do that.

We are all exactly where we have earned the right to currently be based upon the results of our own study and training efforts thus far. Only you can train for you. Thus, everything and everyone else is essentially irrelevant.

Yes, that's always a nice attitude to fall back on in order to avoid uncomfortable truths.

That's an absurd comment! I offered no opinion on the OP video whatsoever, either positive or negative, since I have no dog in that fight.

There are no "uncomfortable truths" for me to avoid.

Sorry, Doc, I got my Mizner threads confused.

I (mis)took your comments in the light of a number of material objections to what Mizner shows overall that have been discussed recently in other threads. From that perspective, I read your comments about subjective bias to be a bit dismissive of some real concerns that had been raised. I see now that you were most likely responding to other stuff. I mean, I guess it's the internet, so I should desperately try to protect my "reputation" with a bunch of people I don't even know and insist that you are really uncomfortable about people discussing whether or not 4 oz. is a ratio, but it's late and I don't have the energy. I'll try to get to some hardcore trolling later this week...

wayne hansen wrote:7 point push is a rare gem but not how I see it done today
All of Huangs pushing exercises are real gems
3 I would practice above all are
7 point
Single arm drop
Double Shoulder with no ward off
It's a pity that Huang had such a large following and yet there are so few of his senior students about today

I don't know single arm drop or double shoulder, or at least not by those names. Although I can't think of any of the patterns I learned that would match those names.

Huang seems to have had a real gift for creating exercises that had an awful lot of key stuff in them. I'm grateful for the bits that have come to me.

Bhassler wrote:Sorry, Doc, I got my Mizner threads confused.

I (mis)took your comments in the light of a number of material objections to what Mizner shows overall that have been discussed recently in other threads. From that perspective, I read your comments about subjective bias to be a bit dismissive of some real concerns that had been raised. I see now that you were most likely responding to other stuff. I mean, I guess it's the internet, so I should desperately try to protect my "reputation" with a bunch of people I don't even know and insist that you are really uncomfortable about people discussing whether or not 4 oz. is a ratio, but it's late and I don't have the energy. I'll try to get to some hardcore trolling later this week...

Haha! Copy that. No worries. We're good. Thanks for clarifying.