Shooter, Graham, JAB, strawdog and others discuss things

[GrahamB]

Bruce I don't make my living teaching martial arts. It's my hobby. I do it because I enjoy it and I don't feel the need to answer to your expectations of what a TJQ teacher should be. Just live and let live brother. Everyone has their own path to walk.

I'm not saying tjq can't be trained fir combat sports. When have I said that? If you want to do that it's fine with me. Good luck to you I say.

G

[Daniel]

Hey Shooter. Like I said before, re-read my post. I think you might have misread it.

I have never said that IMA cannot be trained for combat sports. I simply stated that the systems themselves aren´t focused on that. If we are going to be specific, there is a lot of material in IMA that can´t be used safely in a sports format. But there is no reason that you can´t train for that agenda if you want to. You would simply need to have very good material, and tailor the training for that specific field. Like anything else, really.



D.

Sarcasm. Oh yeah, like that´ll work.

[CaliG]

What is MMA missing? One shred of class.

Dave C.

Seconded. There are rare moments where sportsmanship shines through between two competitors, but mma, like boxing or any other ring sport, is a cutthroat mudslinging shitshow out to make names and money.

Because everyone doing IMAs show respect and have class...?

[DeusTrismegistus]

It seems like fear and ignorance is what's keeping it from being a stand-alone method. Which automatically lends false credence the other bullshit idea that it needs to have a supplimentery grappling/groundfighting system added to it for MMA.

That is one of the biggest load of BS i have EVER read on this board. Grappling yes maybe - but ground fighting - no waaaaaaay - unless you don't expect ever to go to the ground... which is lunacy in a MMA arena. There is credence in the maxim - 'train how you fight - and fight how you train' - and Tai Chi is not trained on the ground - in same way Muay Thai is not. If you don't train ground fighting then how do you expect to DO IT. I wait in anticipation for a top Tai Chi Guy to enter a MMA comp and tap out a top BJJ guy - ha ha haha haaaa! Prayer wheel indeed!!!

Just because people don't normally train taiji on the ground does not mean that it cannot be used on the ground (or more specifically taiji principles). My teacher has always allowed ground fighting and personally taiji principles are what I use when there. I have a little practice at it but I don't do it often at all so I still suck on the ground. I completely agree that you have to train there to be able to do it, just like anything else.

[strawdog]

Yeah, but what about secluding yourself in cave or some forested mountain hideout and just invent your own method of groundfighting? JAB you're just un-original.

[strawdog]

He actually humbled himself as a student and learned BJJ and received a blackbelt for his efforts along with various first place victories in numerous grappling competitions.

The great ones seem to not mind being a student. The not so great ones claim they invented things on their own.

[BruceP]

...and Tai Chi is not trained on the ground

Sure it is. Haven't you been paying attention? Maybe you're like other folks who plug their ears and sing "lalalalalalalala" Not good if you actually care to know the facts.

You guys would be better off just training BJJ or Sambo or Judo

When I began developing the fast wrestling in '94, the nearest BJJ or Sambo school was 700 miles away. I could already tool the Judo dudes in this area - no judo in my town. I guess people are just a lot more resourceful when they live in remote parts of the world.

The work I did stands on its own merits. Besides, the purpose of that development was to round out the training. It wasn't to be the world's best grappler or win competitions. It just so happened that winning a few matches against 'real' grapplers was a part of the proofing process. Many of the guys I've trained have done much better than I have, with NO training outside of what I developed, against some very grapplers at numerous tournaments. I just wanted to be sure the training was sound and move on. Those younger guys who have taken the training further like to test and evolve what I gave them so they could take ownership of it. I wouldn't have it any other way.

2 of them are currently teaching the same material and developing some fairly decent young fighters.

[BruceP]

The skills are quite useful for grappling, and whether somebody mixed them with BJJ, etc. or developed a catalog on their own and trained it, at least parts of neijia could be quite useful for a competitive context IMO

I share that opinion...obviously. But it is often shouted over by myopic, jealous little men who seek to tear down the work done by those who have eaten the bitter in their efforts to broaden the spectrum a little.


I've done a great thing in planting the seed.
The winds of shit may blow, a shitnami may roll in, a shit bonfire may rage aginst what I've done, but none of that shit can change the facts.

[BruceP]

I think a lot of people are just mad because they didn't think of it first.

And if they want to take their tjq into sport combat, I'm the giant upon whose shoulders they must stand. heh

But seriously...
One thing I do know for sure, if tjq dudes want to take their authentic, traditional tjq into sport combat, they will have to follow pretty much the same model I developed because there isn't much I haven't thought of or discarded in the process of adapting it to the respective formats. Whether they arrive at the same conclusions on their own - through the same painful process I endured - or they take from what I've been offering here over the years, I hope they feel it was as worthwhile as I believe my efforts were. They will have a lot easier time finding acceptance because of what I've done over the past 15 years.

Docherty's guys are the only others I know of who are doing their thing in the ring. He follows 5-steps as well, and that is the catalyst to the process.

And with that, I leave this thread to play out as it will.

[GrahamB]

What was that about MMA and egos again?

[Doc Stier]

What was that about MMA and egos again?

Dammit, Graham!

Where's your respect for the only real fighters out there?

Doc

[Tom]

Shooter -
WHo are you? Care to use a real name?
I have a serious question for you though. . . . how flexible are you? How long have you been able to bend over far enough to suck your own dick? Are you familiar with the term "megalomaniac?"

Once again many many claims of this that and the other..... yet where is the video to back all this hot air up with?

John W. -
The next time a MMA/BJJ guy is dissing CMA, just read over this thread and remind yourself of why they are justified in their thinking and opinions!

Jake

[Daniel]

I don´t think using that kind of language is acceptable, JAB.


D.

Sarcasm. Oh yeah, like that´ll work.

[JAB]

I don't really care Daniel.

I guess you guys are going the bitch ass route that your mortal enemy EF has eh? Edited posts without permission or even talking to the person?!?!?!

Lame move guys. VERY lame move! Same shit as EF! You are no better than they are.

[strawdog]

These quotes are just too precious to let go so I must quote Bruce Almighty himself.

I'm the giant upon whose shoulders they must stand.

I've done a great thing in planting the seed.