Sun Style Taiji

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Re: Sun Style Taiji

Postby Doc Stier on Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:40 pm

"The beginning point is Wu-Chi. This posture is performed facing to the North direction, with both hands hanging downward at the sides, while forming a 90 degree angle between the two feet. This posture is in harmony with natural principles.

Before training, there is no thought or intention, no form or image, no awareness of self or others, only the Intrinsic Energy (Chi) which exists in the disorder of the body. This state is called Wu-Chi..."
Sun Lu Tang

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Re: Sun Style Taiji

Postby klonk on Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:29 pm

The one weighted leg is a good idea from merely a tactical or fighting perspective. If your weight is only on one foot, you always have someplace to go. It's not, hop, hop, hop.
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Re: Sun Style Taiji

Postby Doc Stier on Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:35 pm

"The postures are high and the footwork is agile, the body is upright and centered, the rhythm is natural and lively, nimble and light. The movements are filled with internal strength, expressing hardness within softness. The speed is smooth and delicate, like floating clouds or flowing water. When practicing, pay attention to the coordination of advancing and retreating of the footwork, and employ the motions of opening and closing the hands to connect each turning."
Sun Style Tai-Chi Cuan Characteristics
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Re: Sun Style Taiji

Postby Doc Stier on Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:30 pm

San Ti Shi: "Three-Harmony" Standing Exercise

The San Ti Shi is based on the stances used in the Xing Yi exercise which is said to have originated by General Yue Fei (1103-1142) of the Jin Dynasty or, according to authentic historical records, by Dai Longbang during the Qing Dynasty (1644-1911), who passed it on to Li Luoneng, a wushu master in Heibei Province. Using internal strength cultivated through this Xing Yi exercise, Li managed to conquer every single one of his adversaries in fighting contests and earned the nickname of Holy Fighter.

Li's style was later known as "neijia," or "internal school of boxing," which lays emphasis on developing internal strength through exercises. The most basic technique to be learned by a neijia practitioner is the standing exercise. As a saying among Li's descendants goes, "The standing exercise is to martial arts what a granary is to food grains."

The three-harmony standing exercise is explained in some of the writings by neijia masters, with the main points as follows:

1) Stand upright and turn the body 45 degrees to the right, using both heels as pivots. Bend both legs slightly so that the knees are directly above the toes. Meanwhile, clench both hands into fists and place them on the hips with palm side down.

2) As you inhale deeply, bring the right fist up to nose level with the arm held close to the body and turned externally so that the knuckles of the fist face forward, while the left fist remains on the hip with the knuckles turned downward.

3) As you exhale, lower the right fist to chest level and, with the left arm drawn close to the body, bring up the left fist to nose level, unclenching it when it passes over the right hand.

4) Then move the left foot about two foot lengths to the front and strike out with the left hand at nose level while unclenching the right fist into a palm and pressing it down to the right "riyue" point as if to protect the rib cage.

5) As the foot and hand movements are completed at the end of exhalation, both legs are slightly bent and the bulk of the body weight is on the rear leg, with the left arm bent at an angle of 135 degrees and the palm facing obliquely downward like a tiger's claw, that is, with thumb and index finger forming a semi-circle and the other fingers naturally extended.

6) Keep standing in this position for as long as you don't feel tired. Traditionally, one would stand for at least three minutes on each foot.

By "three harmonies" we mean, externally, 1) proper alignment between hands and feet (with fingers above toes); 2) proper alignment between shoulders and hips (also with the two on a vertical line); and 3) proper alignment between shoulders and hips (also with the two on a vertical line).

Furthermore, internally the term refers to 1) harmony between mind and will, which means that only with concentration of mind can you attain a state of tranquility and use the power of the will; 2) harmony between will and "chi", which means that only by the power of the will can chi be conducted up and down the body without interruption; and 3) harmony between chi and force, which means that the internal organs will relax when chi descends and contract when chi ascends, thus creating a force which, as vividly described in The Yellow Emperor's Canon of Internal Medicine, "lies hidden as if in a drawn crossbow and which is capable of displaying the power of a released arrow," a force that is often effectively used by wushu masters for knocking down their adversaries and by qigong masters for treating their patients.

In doing this exercise, you are required to keep your head and neck erect as though something were pulling you up by the hair or a heavy object were resting on the top of your head. At the same time, you must keep your belly and hips tucked in, so that the lower dantian will be filled with chi, which, by means of regulated respiration, will flow up into the upper dantian and down to yongquan points through the Eight Extra Channels in "large circles" and through the Ren and Du Channels in "small circles." Regular practice will produce curative effects on such chronic ailments as hypertension, arteriosclerosis and tachycardia.

http://www.suntaichi.com/santishi.html
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Re: Sun Style Taiji

Postby GrahamB on Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:41 pm

Back to more.... mundane.... matters... ;)

What's the usual application of White Crane Spreads Wings in Sun? I always thought it looked a bit.... weird....
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Re: Sun Style Taiji

Postby Doc Stier on Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:28 pm

The possible applications for every form posture are many and variable, intended to spontaneously manifest in combat through one's automatic reactions to immediate opportunities and needs. Since the action dynamics of real fighting usually develop more quickly and unexpectedly than conscious thought can either perceive or direct, this is of crucial importance.

In any event, even good hypothetical examples of possible form applications will rarely occur as suggested in the examples. And when a particular form posture is applied as suggested, it is generally by way of automatic reaction in spontaneous response to the attack, not as the result of conscious perception, deliberate selection, or willful intent.
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Re: Sun Style Taiji

Postby Doc Stier on Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:40 am

Tom:

I'm suggesting that applications be internalized at every level of training, not intellectualized. ;)
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Re: Sun Style Taiji

Postby GrahamB on Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:04 am

Thanks for that list Tom - but it didn't include White Crane spreads Wings, unless I'm missing it?

"Internalised" or not I am doubting a meaningful application of that move in Sun style.... :-\
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Re: Sun Style Taiji

Postby TaoJoannes on Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:10 am

Haoran wrote:All standard for taiji with the exception of the one weighted leg. This is a characteristic of our bagua as well.


That's actually very much a part of Cheng Man Ching's method.
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Re: Sun Style Taiji

Postby Michael Babin on Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:33 am

As to an application of Sun-style White Crane...

the one that I use the most uses the previous posture "Raise Hands, Step Up" as a starting point in which the opponent has punched to the mid-torso with the left hand and the "good guy" has used the lower arm of "Raise Hands, Step-up" to deflect to the left as the left foot is brought in for a possible knee strike or sweep.

In response, the "bad guy" throws a right hand to the "good guys" head and now the White Crane posture comes into play. The second fist attack is intercepted by the Sun-stylist's left hand and deflected downwards while the right hand rises from underneath to catch the right fist that is being pushed down; the Sun-stylist steps forward with the right foot slightly cutting the attacker's original angle a little and pushes/strikes into the "bad guy" as he shiffs the weight onto the right leg and follow-steps with the left. While doing the latter, one hand can trap the one arm while striking with the other or both hands can push depending on how well you have gotten your advancing right foot under the other person's center of gravity.

In practise you push but it can also be an unpleasant strike that angles upwards at the attacker's weakest angle. Done correctly an inexperienced attacker will have his arms tangled momentarily at least and left being thrown up and back. I have had students much lighter than me propel me up and back six or so feet into a wall when they got too excited in their efforts.

For more experienced students, the "bad guy" withdraws the second punch as soon as it is deflected and the student must follow and use the rising left hand to smother the third punch.

Anyway, I have seen and experienced other applications of this posture but these are the ones I work on. I have been doing Sun 97 Posture form since 2000 after many years of other arts so I am sure that those other influences have crept into my approach to Sun. But, I don't have a problem with that... :-)
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Re: Sun Style Taiji

Postby Doc Stier on Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:55 am

GrahamB wrote:Thanks for that list Tom - but it didn't include White Crane spreads Wings, unless I'm missing it?

"Internalised" or not I am doubting a meaningful application of that move in Sun style.... :-\

Dammit, Graham! >:( Where's your imagination? ???

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In Sun Lu-Tang's book, A Study of Tai-Chi Chuan, published in 1924, this form posture is listed as White Swan Cools Its Wings or Bai He Liang Chi.

The directions for performance of this form posture are as follows:

"Slide the right hand up the body and raise it slightly above the head, with the palm facing forward towards. The left hand moves from the forehead along the mid-line of the body down to the waist. Step forward with the right heel. Draw both hands to about chest height, with the palms facing forward. Push forward with both hands, palms facing. Follow step with the left foot to a left toe stance with the left foot slightly behind the right heel. Don't move the head up and down very much."

"As the hands move, the right foot simultaneously steps forward, touching down on the heel. The feet should be spaced a comfortable distance apart. As you move the right foot forward, the body remains upright and stable. Do not move the body or shift the weight as the right leg moves."

Note: This method of stepping (7b-7d) is constant throughout the form. Whether advancing, retreating, or stepping to the side, the foot steps out first, with no movement of the hips or torso. The heel is placed down first, and then the body weight is gradually shifted to the stepping leg. One must never fall onto the foot when stepping.

"The energy of the waist presses downward. Use intent to pull in the roots of the shoulders and legs. This energy must not be obvious externally. The pressing up of the crown of the head must not be obvious, must not use too much force or maintain too much tension."

"When the heart is empty and quiet, without thought, the body will be naturally stable."

This is known as the Marvelous Mystery."

Sun Lu Tang, A Study of Tai-Chi Chuan 1924
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Re: Sun Style Taiji

Postby Doc Stier on Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:34 am

Michael Babin wrote:"As to an application of Sun-style White Crane... "

Nice post, Michael!

Given Master Sun's insistence on remaining "empty and quiet, without thought", every potential application of any form posture must be viewed only a hypothetical possibility, which may or may not be expressed that way in actual application.

According to Sun's teaching, when conscious thoughts, decisions and selective choices are eliminated from the process of engaging an enemy's attacks, the externalized expression of one's internally driven automatic reactions and spontaneous responses always remains unpredictable.

It has been my personal experience many times in the past that such unthinking reactions and responses may indeed manifest very effective applications of various form postures exactly as hypothetically suggested, clearly validating what was taught, which is always very cool! 8-)

However, there were many other instances in which my unthinking automatic reactions and spontaneous responses manifested the same form posture as equally effective application that was never taught to me, never practiced with a partner, or never even imagined as a viable possibility! And yet, there it was! :)
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Re: Sun Style Taiji

Postby GrahamB on Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:42 am

Doc Stier wrote:Dammit, Graham! >:( Where's your imagination? ???

Image
In Sun Lu-Tang's book, A Study of Tai-Chi Chuan, published in 1924, this form posture is listed as White Swan Cools Its Wings or Bai He Liang Chi.


My problem is that my imagination is telling me that this move looks more like "gently swat fly away from face in an effeminate manner before you give them a push" - ;D
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Re: Sun Style Taiji

Postby GrahamB on Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:42 am

thanks Michael - I shall try and visualise what you mean.
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Re: Sun Style Taiji

Postby Michael Babin on Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:27 am

Doc Stier has a valid point about applications and its a touch choice between practising in a free-style manner and doing solo forms as separate exercises or trying to practise by yourself in a way that reflects realistic combative usage. However, beginners usually benefit from structure and understanding martial usage at a basic level is much better than the hilarious analogy previously offered by Graham B.

I might also suggest as a generalization that being able to do basic techinques in a structured manner under a variety of stressful training conditions often gives most students the groundwork for being able to be "empty" and respond spontaneously to fit the martial situation.

I would imagine that Sun Lutang must have been an exceptional martial artist for his time; partly because of the decades that he put into xingyi and bagua before learning Hao style taiji; and, partly because he apparently had a very rough life early on and "eating bitter" is often a forge for real martial skill.
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