What have I found: Dr Stephen Yan Tuishou

[ors]

At least we can see now the true taiji force, what comes from the correct practice of the ORIGINAL wu fast form...





Cheers!

Örs

[mrtoes]

Oh no not again

[Josealb]

Ors, if that was sarcasm...i applaud your skills.

If it wasnt...

[ors]

Josealb!

I trust you to decide it...

Örs

[wassy]

in shanghai, those close to grandmaster ma also said the wu fast form is an important method in itself in learning fa jin etc.

[Fubo]

I couldn't get past the 1st minute in both vids (so maybe what I'm about to say is moot), but where are all the cool and effective throwing techniques from the Wu style?

[Josealb]

They are all there in the clip, but the skill is so subtle at times...cant you see them?

(Ors..you have taught me well...)

[ors]

[Fubo]

They are all there in the clip, but the skill is so subtle at times...cant you see them?

(Ors..you have taught me well...)

Hey Josealb,

I'm guessing you're joking, but just in case I'll answer seriously.

I sat through the entire length of both clips (time I will never get back) and I believe I saw 1 moment where Yan's partner fell on his butt (I'm not sure if that was due to Yan's skill, or the partner's willingness to fall or inability to stay standing). Anyway, you see so many of these kinds of demos where partner attacks in some way and master redirects the attack and pushes partner away. You rarely see someone entering and attempting to finish the throw in any kind of convincing fashion, and even rarer is a Taiji throwing demo against a resisting attacker. It's very easy to develop the ability to absorb, re-direct and push way type of thing... and it's very hard to develop true entering ability and transition to throw (which is why you see so many people pushing their partner way). In the clips above I see 100 and 1 ways to push someone away in many directions, the use of leverage to push someone away, a few arm drags to pull someone away, and there are hints at possible entries for throwing techniques, but I see no demonstration of actual ability to throw.

I'm not saying the Yan is incapable of decent throwing, but in close to 20 minutes of Wu style push hands I would expect to see at least a few varieties of throws.

[taiwandeutscher]

Aside the fact that phs has limited usage in real fighting as has been often stated, even in normal phs competitions here in Asia, the shown skills would never be enough to win anything. Maybe challenge some famous master in old age does to trick, but then, like Fubo, I didn't watch more than a minute of the 1st, only secs of the 2nd.

[Josealb]

Ah...Ors has taught me too well, it seems.

Fubo, i was joking, and i wholeheartedly agree with you. Compare Dr. Yan, to this guy for a second. Both are demos of slow tuishou, and both are just examples of applications on "the drawing board" (meaning that they are never to be confused with the final product, since push hands is just a training drill...its by all means NOT a live test for real applications in a fighting context). So whats the difference?

[Fubo]

Yeah, I thought you were joking. LOL.

The clip you posted shows that the guy understands and can demonstrate actual technical usage of his art relative to the particular entry he's using. In comparison Yan in his vids neglects the actual usage relative to the different entries and turns everything into a push or pull as a conclusion.

The more I see Zhao Bao the more I like, as they seem to have pretty consistently retained the "Martial" art.

[Ian]

I didn't watch more than a minute of the 1st, only secs of the 2nd.

You mean you don't know how to appreciate 20 minutes of pushing?

[Andy_S]

Fubo:

No argument from me - but your/my argument should not be (just) with Stephen Yan, it should be with the legions of pajama-ed masters whose key "fighting skill" (or at least, the key "fighting skill" they seem to spend the most time training) is pushing the opponent away. Oh, and preferably making him hop while doing it.

Of course, there are those who say "Well, when we push, we are actually training the strike" but, alas, I have never met (or seen (though I live in hope) a master who can, indeed, convert one skill to the other.

[ors]

Hi Andy!

I don't think, that this kind of tuishou is totally wrong. It is a skill, what you can develope well, or not too well either. I think there are some teachers on the net, who we can watch actually (like the first tuishou clip, I have put on) and are much better in this kind of play, than what we can see here, and they never speak about themselves as the inheritor of the ONLY, ORIGINAL, REAL taijiskills...

That is the problem here, not the lack of (PE throwing) skills, in my opinion.

Do you remeber, when this man had an argument with you about the skills of Chen Zhiqiang? I do...

Cheers!

Örs