Sun Baguazhang

The following typical threads that plague martial arts sites will get moved here if not just deleted: 1 - My style is better than Your style" - 2 - "Internal & External" - 3 - Personal attacks - 4 - Threads that start well, but degenerate into a spiral of nonsense.

Re: Sun Baguazhang

Postby spring on Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:32 am

I am here to exchange experiences with friends who love the art of Bagua, sorry if its upset people who obviously admire Mr Cartmell. My intention was not to attack anyone, the exchange just veered into facts that obviously discomfort people, I apologise for bringing those things up .

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Re: Sun Baguazhang

Postby strawdog on Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:40 am

I'd like to exchange experiences with you face to face. Where are you? What's your real name? Who are your shadowy friends who know all the "facts"? I'd like to exchange experiences with them too. It's good to be educated about these things.
Last edited by strawdog on Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sun Baguazhang

Postby Fubo on Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:28 am

I don't see anyone here being upset about any truths surrounding Tim Cartmell - he doesn't strike me as the kind of person that needs to prove anything to anyone, as he's "already" proved "it". I see people correcting you on your dismisive attitude and ingorance about Tim Cartmell and his experience.
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Re: Sun Baguazhang

Postby Fubo on Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:19 am

re. my other post - any video of you displaying Sun BGZ? Or the "higher" aspect of Sun BGZ?
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Re: Sun Baguazhang

Postby Dmitri on Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:51 am

Fubo wrote:re. my other post - any video of you displaying Sun BGZ? Or the "higher" aspect of Sun BGZ?

You so funneh. ;D
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Re: Sun Baguazhang

Postby Fubo on Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:02 pm

Dmitri wrote:
Fubo wrote:re. my other post - any video of you displaying Sun BGZ? Or the "higher" aspect of Sun BGZ?

You so funneh. ;D


I try! -devil-
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Re: Sun Baguazhang

Postby mixjourneyman on Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:51 pm

I think the point is that Tim is a very high level martial artist and had the bagua skills before meeting Madame Sun. I bet he could have picked up more in a month than many aspiring martial artists could have picked up in several years. :)
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Re: Sun Baguazhang

Postby cdobe on Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:21 pm

On Tim's homepage I didn't find for how long he studied with Mrs. Sun. But I read that he studied "with the Sun family" http://www.shenwu.com/background.htm. So it's possible that he studied with other people much longer than with Sun Jian Yun. It would be nice if Meynard or Jake would ask Tim about this.
Last edited by cdobe on Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sun Baguazhang

Postby DeusTrismegistus on Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:39 pm

Spring,

You are new here, you come into here and then try to tell everyone else how your teacher who knows so much about Sun bagua had very few students but was very highly skilled (which no one but you is likely to verify), then you act like you can tell well respected members of the board who has the real and who doesn't.

Here is some advice, if you want to be taken seriously.
1. Don't talk shit about people you haven't met, just makes you a condescending prick.
2. Don't disrespect other people's teachers.
3. Don't act like a know it all.

Right now you are failing miserably and a decent intro thread has made me consider you as little better than a troll. I am also one of the more patient members when it comes to forming an opinion on people.

As for your comment about Tim not being able to know Sun style or Shangxi style in depth because he spent little time there; it is completely illogical. I have not spent time with GM Chang yet I know Chang shuai jiao, I learn it from one of his students. Many people have never been to hebei but they know hebei xingyi and know it very well, because they are learning from people who know the system very well and may, or may not, have studied it in hebei. Just because someone says they have trained with someone does not mean they are claiming to be disciples. I have trained with Daniel Weng when he has visited Ohio, but I am not his student, but that doesn't mean I didn't learn anything valuable.
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Re: Sun Baguazhang

Postby xxxxx on Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:57 pm

to the pit...
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Re: Sun Baguazhang

Postby JAB on Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:02 pm

What Fubo said times 10!

I have asked Tim, and he stated he trained off and on with the Sun folk on his visits to Northern China. I did not ask for EXACTLY how many hours of what days, etc. Did Tim spend all 10 years with them? No. Did he just spend a long weekend with them? Certainly not either. Tim was working as a translator and guide throughout many of those years, so he would be travelling and spending periods of time in various cities of Northern China (Beijing, Shanghai... etc.).
If you all are so interested in the exact number of hours, feel free to contact Tim via his website. You can bother him with stupid ass questions. I have better things to discuss with Tim.
For if he is not a "lineage holder" or the "highest" teacher (isn't that Eddie Bravo -joint- , whatever those comments mean, I can attest to the fact that he has a much deeper knowledge, and ability to apply the martial sciences better than all the self proclaimed "masters" and "grandmasters" I have had the pleasure to train with!

Spring,
If you were really interested in just "sharing" knowledge, you would not have been so quick to tell everyone on this board that you do the "real" Sun Bagua because of what your teacher told you was the "highest level of teaching." Notice how since I do not know your teacher, and never touched hands with him, that I do not belittle him or his knowledge? Yet you have to chime in with your rumor mongering, and juvenile BS behavior. Not the best impression you have left junior!
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Re: Sun Baguazhang

Postby I-mon on Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:01 pm

even though i had a feeling that "spring" might be our old friend "ten" in disguise, i still think it's sad the way you guys overreact and basically do your best to drive away anyone who pisses you off.

i doubt very much that tim cartmell would ever claim to know the entire system of sun lu tang's bagua, and yet when someone else says the same thing you guys go completely apeshit and start insulting the person who says it?

anyway whatever. chances are this cat's just another "high level" dreamer with no foundation, but still, sad.
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Re: Sun Baguazhang

Postby wiesiek on Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:39 pm

spring wrote:hello Wiesiek - Thats interesting, was your teacher in Taoist Loong Men by any chance ?

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Re: Sun Baguazhang

Postby edededed on Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:56 am

Hey Glenn,

Could you describe Dr. Xie's qigong methods a bit? Sounds pretty interesting... what is opening the energy gates, bone marrow practices, etc.?
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Re: Sun Baguazhang

Postby D_Glenn on Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:34 am

edededed wrote:
Could you describe Dr. Xie's qigong methods a bit? Sounds pretty interesting... what is opening the energy gates, bone marrow practices, etc.?


Exercises/meditations done in an aligned-knees sitting posture that use certain hand positions and movements of the torso to open the 3 passes/gates 三關(lowerback, middle, and neck/head) then fill 3 dantians, work 5 organs and the closing method with intent to through the whole process of jing-to shen to void- reverse prenatal order-nourish marrow of bones-to nourish marrow of spinal column/brain. I think it is a daoist practice.
The lohan (buddhist) patting has opening the four gates- the head baihui and neck, 2 - the centerline of the torso, 3- blood gate is from spleen down side of body and inside the leg, 4 is the centerline of the back.
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