WongYing wrote:Sal,
Thanks for your reply. My input, Eagle Claw was allready quite cohesive before ChenTziChing's time, agreed he did add two further rows of techniques to Xing Chuan or 10 Road of Eagle Claw. CTC was a student of Liu Chung Yo/Lau Sing Yau(who learned from Liu SiChun) not Liu De Kuan, he may have had some exposure to Liu De Kuan if/when Liu De Kuan returned to Baoding.
It is said that Liu De Kuan learned the complete system from Liu SiChun, who also knew Liu He Chuan - Six Harmony boxing, which Liu De Kuan also knew. Liu Si Chun had/was allready combing the more commonly seen eagle claw skills within is BaFanShou/Liu He Chaun before Liu De Kuan - All though it did develop further. This was during Liu Si Chuns time in Beijing
Liu SiChun passed the system onto Liu Chung Yo( Lau SingYau) who intern taught Liu Chi Wen/Lau Lai Men and ChenZiCheng. Taught in Baoding
The TanTui is from ShangHai ChinWoo- agreed
This information is based on direct site survey in Baoding
Regards
I really resent you guys making a joke of things and saying stuff like "Sal's classic "it looks the same/similar, so it's from the same source" method", because that is not what I do at all. I have a real process that I use that is from Anthroplogy. And I work with serious researchers around the world. Who taught whom what, when, and where is the major data that is collected. Without that, nothing can be substantiated.
There is a 6 Harmony Tan Tui set, 12 rows, very different from Cha Quan system's 10 tan tui rows, from Liu's 6 Harmony Quan style.
The way the movements are made are more like the rows in Yue Shi Ba Fan Shou than other the better known tan tui sets.
Also, the first row in all tan tui sets, 10 or 12 rows, is actually from the Cha Quan system's Pao Quan sets.
The beginning piece of some of their Pao Quan sets (not related at all to Pao Quan from Henan or TJQ) has pretty much the same movements as row one now seen in most standard tan tui sets.
The 10 tan tui was developed long ago by taking foundational material from various sets in the Cha Quan system and making them into drill like actions.
their Tui Quan sets, which are very long, contain most of the movements seen in the tan tui sets, plus a lot more. The Yi Lu (first) set of Cha Quan's Tui Quan sets is very much like 10 tan tui
beegs wrote:just for curiosity sal, where and what can i look for in xy that is similar to aikido?
edededed wrote:I think it is very difficult to compare the movements from one style and another - for one, how do we know that a particular example of a style is authentic, anyway? We can try to find the best lineages, but even finding that, we cannot be sure that the current practitioners were not influenced by popular CMA today (taijiquan, for example); even finding the best, most authentic lineages, we cannot be sure that the current practitioners are not showing watered-down versions, or that they are practicing what their great-grandteachers taught unchanged (just look as how fast baguazhang changed through the generations).
But anyway, there are a few points I am not sure I agree with right now (they might be right, but I haven't seen much to substantiate them here yet):
1. I don't think that Shanxi xingyiquan people teach bafanshou before teaching xingyiquan. Most people just start with xingyiquan, and never learn bafanshou.
2. I doubt any connections between aikido and xingyiquan (or even baguazhang); I can read Japanese, so if that Japanese research is available, I could look it over for you, though.
I don't know much about eagle claw or fanziquan or liuhequan, but I do want to know more about the relationship with the eagle claw fanzi (yingzhaofanzi) and other fanziquan lineages (such as chuojiaofanzi).
Josealb wrote:Sal, you cant really say that you know the goods... and in the same sentence say nobody knows your real name.
Do you really expect people to take you seriously?
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