appledog wrote:https://youtu.be/GII5YGgbsyMThe main problem with push hands like this is that you are never really going to learn any kind of internal mechanics by doing it. Its like being shoved into the deep end. Nothing wrong with that it can be fun for a while, just that it is incompatible with trying to actually learn tai chi.
Hey,
A little help here; the link isn't a push hands clip, but a technique / application clip. Though I can presume that what you're talking about is a kind of fixed free pushing or even free moving step 'pushing'.. Given the "shoving" thread.. I'm curious why you hold so firmly to this idea of incompatability. It's a bit strong, especially when it's just an opinion you hold, no actual sound reasoning or evidence is ever presented, just biased subjective personal feelings. Do these feeling extend to moving step taiji grappling/wrestling. It would be nice to hear why it is so incompatable and an example of which types of practices you think fullfill this prediction. I think you're missing a trick by not making these and similar type drills a part of your syllabus. You can have uncooperative drills that break down parts of the process and lead people along. None of it should be seen as an 'end result' or a learning of tai chi chuan. They represent a developmental tool and a measuring yardstick of certain skills/ attributes - important foundational ones. I don't deny some issues, but it's very hard to not come across issues in any kind of training that simulates parts of or an entirety of martial engagement. Does what Chen Zhiqiang gets up to with taiji grappling incompatable in your eyes for example ?
Regards the fixed feet pushing, if it dissapeared from competitions in favour of moving step categories I would be fine, Perhaps one more traditional and one more in line with Chinese wrestling but jacketless. One of the things about fixed feet is that peoples egos often get in the way and rather than invest in loss they resort to distortion and breaking form to stay in the game. Could you not see the personal value in overcoming a challenge like that?
What would be even better is if competitons adopted something involving some striking, but not as severe as full contact, something a bit less intimidating.
To be more specific, I was referring to the students under Huang Sheng Shyan who was well known to teach White Crane alongside Tai Chi. When I went to push with some students from that school it was like doing basic shaolin. They had some tai-chi like skills but loved to break taiji rules when it suited them. I got hit by a lot of common applications like monk opens the door. They had a totally different focus and different goals from the training. Nothing wrong with that, but it isn't exactly the kind of thing I was expecting at the time.
So what kind of focus and goals are you working towards; can you find clips that represents that to show us ?
I'm interested what format(s) you would use to measure progress in the end goal you envisage. I was hoping the clip you posted would show your perspective towards the bad or ugly, but regardless it would be useful to share your perspective of the good.