Michael wrote:What number of dead at Tiananmen does the PRC acknowledge?
Based on your information, what number do you think were killed?
What is the numerical point where the number becomes too high to believe?
so if it were a small number, why would it need to be hidden?
Michael wrote:Just a general response to anyone here who is dubious of the 10K killed claim.
What number of dead at Tiananmen does the PRC acknowledge?
Based on your information, what number do you think were killed?
What is the numerical point where the number becomes too high to believe?
PRC efforts at covering up this event continue to this day, so if it were a small number, why would it need to be hidden? Considering many hooligans were executed immediately after for killing soldiers, why couldn't other casualties be acknowledged? "Oh, the soldiers had to fire their weapons at the hooligans throwing molotov cocktails at the troops and yes, unfortunately, a few students were caught in the crossfire."
How does the PRC handle massacres perpetrated by themselves? What's their standard operating procedure? What was the most recent large scale government massacre that they were unable to totally hide and how did they deal with it afterwards, particularly in regards to how they literally hid the bodies?
What is your basis for speculating about the PRC and what they actually do as a matter of course in dealing with social problems, dissidents, troublemakers, protestors, etc?
kenneth fish wrote:The "Tian An Men Shi Jian" or "Tian An Men Incident" does indeed refer to the uprising and protests that spread throughout the country. As I stated above, many cities were involved - and troops and People's Armed Police were used to quell what was seen as a potential civil war. When I was in China in 1980 and 1981 there were entire regions that were not open to foreign travel (and only allowed limited travel for locals) due to unrest (Shandong, Fujian, and Guizhou were primary among them). I recall being in Guiyang and seeing walls pockmarked with bullet holes - some of which were from battles fought during the Cultural Revolution, when rival troops and civilian gangs faced off, but other damage was more recent.
How many people can a government kill when the eyes of the world are not watching? Chinese estimates for the numbers that perished during the Cultural Revolution are near the 30 million mark. And when the world is watching? Look at the beginnings of the war in Syria - a government that does not care what the outside world thinks will employ troops to kill without hesitation.
Trick wrote:Michael wrote:Just a general response to anyone here who is dubious of the 10K killed claim.
What number of dead at Tiananmen does the PRC acknowledge?
Based on your information, what number do you think were killed?
What is the numerical point where the number becomes too high to believe?
PRC efforts at covering up this event continue to this day, so if it were a small number, why would it need to be hidden? Considering many hooligans were executed immediately after for killing soldiers, why couldn't other casualties be acknowledged? "Oh, the soldiers had to fire their weapons at the hooligans throwing molotov cocktails at the troops and yes, unfortunately, a few students were caught in the crossfire."
How does the PRC handle massacres perpetrated by themselves? What's their standard operating procedure? What was the most recent large scale government massacre that they were unable to totally hide and how did they deal with it afterwards, particularly in regards to how they literally hid the bodies?
What is your basis for speculating about the PRC and what they actually do as a matter of course in dealing with social problems, dissidents, troublemakers, protestors, etc?
You live in China why don't you ask around among the locals. Wonder why you came to China since you seem to not like it here.
Michael wrote:Dude, those are rhetorical questions for people who have no basis for speculation. I know the answers because I live here and have looked into these topics more than the most people care to.
Trick wrote:Michael wrote:Dude, those are rhetorical questions for people who have no basis for speculation. I know the answers because I live here and have looked into these topics more than the most people care to.
Ok, you are saying with your research and in dept knowledge about this topic you have come to the same conclusion as the former UK Ambassador? Since you live in China I hope your sources of information on this topic is a notch better than your information sources about the "liberal left Antifa", rape and #metoo in the US...Good luck with you research
Steve James wrote:I think it's worthwhile to clarify that 10k people being killed "at" Tienamen Square is not the same as 10k people killed "during" the Tienamen uprising/period. It's hard to accept that 10k were killed at the Square, itself. But it's possible.
However, what are we expected that do with the information? Is it to make us feel negatively about the PRC?
it is very easy for me to believe that 10,000 or more were killed that night in Beijing.
Yes, I posted this news in order to increase awareness that the PRC is a murderous government. The title and content of the thread make that obvious.
Steve James wrote:Michael wrote:Yes, I posted this news in order to increase awareness that the PRC is a murderous government. The title and content of the thread make that obvious.
And that's exactly why it doesn't move me at all. The only purpose is provocation in order to justify or support views that have little to do with the PRC today. If you want to talk about current atrocities committed by the PRC, go ahead. It's not necessary to bring up what happened 30 years ago. Shucks, the Cultural Revolution was probably worse.
Well, my question was, if true, what do you want us to do with the information --other than just say "those nasty PRC people"?
Anyway, there are things happening much closer to home in time and space; but, they are often denied.
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