GrahamB wrote:This sounds a bit like your asking (philosophically) ‘How can we really be sure we can know anything?”
Just to be clear, I'm asking a very specific, practical question: it isn't a questions of epistemology.
Urban legend has it that the final exam of a course on existentialism had a single question that asked, "Prove you exist." In answer to the question, one student walked up the professor and kicked him in the nuts. The student got an A in the course.
I don’t know if you missed it, but I did suggest earlier in the thread that if anybody is following along with this series they should post videos of their results and I can provide feedback
Yes, I saw it. I decided it was better for me not to comment on it. As you are aware, I have numerous videos publicly viewable, one of which teaches the single arm circle you are teaching.
But if you are suggesting that the teaching method for a beginner is to move away from “feelings”, I’d disagree. That’s *exactly* where it should be directed.
My first encounter with Taiji was a class I took at a local community college. The class was taught by several volunteers from the organization called Taoist Tai Chi, by the number of members, then the largest "martial arts" organization in the world. After the 8-week introduction, I attended one of their schools. The business model for the organization is that teachers at the branch schools are volunteers. Consequently, we had a number of teachers taking turns teaching the beginner's class. I observed that each teacher performed the movements somewhat differently. When I asked a teacher about that, and whether a specific movement should be done the way that teacher does it or this teacher does it, the teacher shrugged and said to do it however I wanted. My conclusion was that if it didn't really matter how I did the movements, then I didn't really need someone to teach me, since anyway I did the movements was okay. I left the school shortly thereafter in search of better teachers.
Getting back to the subject at hand, if all I need to do is wave my arm in a circle until I feel something I like, why do I need a teacher to do that? If any feeling I have is meaningful and correct, can't I just do whatever produces the feelings I want and call that Tai Chi? If it is all about subjective feeling, do I need a teacher to validate what I feel? How do I know that I feel what the teacher feels? How do I know that the teacher knows what I feel - if they don't how can their guidance be relevant?
Once upon a time, Taijiquan was something very specific, a martial art. One was successful at the art if one stayed alive and prevailed in a martial conflict. There was objective evidence that what was being done was effective or "correct".
What you seem to be suggesting is the antithesis of that: whatever you feel is correct because there is no objective criteria for "correctness". That is, as long as what you feel you believe is correct, it is correct. That is the gateway to, "Taijiquan is whatever I want it to be", "The rules of chess are whatever I want them to be", "gravity acts in whatever direction I want it to", and, to quote Humpty Dumpty, "Words mean whatever I want them to mean". It's a slippery slope eliminating from one's existence any form of objectivity. (No, I'm not going to mention current U.S. politics.)
Used to be physicists and philosophers believed that heavy objects fell faster than lighter objects. Reasoned from their armchairs, it seemed like it should be true. It wasn't until Galileo that anyone performed objective tests to prove or disprove that claim.
To do what I’m proposing you need an intense awareness of the inner body.
Agreed. However, first, few beginning students have that awareness. Second, just feeling "stuff" doesn't necessarily mean anything other than you feel stuff: not all feelings are necessarily measures of achievement.
When it comes to the inner body all we have to deal with are feelings.
If you are referring to Taoist Alchemy type development, that might be true. Is what you are teaching in the videos the starting point for that development?
I’m not talking about a magic Qi connection - I’m talking about a real, felt, tangible (Qi) connection. Of course, in a beginner it may even be too weak to feel at all, in which case, keep practicing, you will build the connection over time. It starts off felling thin and weak and the more you practice with the right focus the more you build it up.
That's the party line. I've lost count of the number of Taiji practitioners I've met who claim to have all sorts of "(Qi) connection", but don't have even basic movement down, let alone be able to do anything objective with it. This is different than "Internal" or "Taoist" alchemy.
Incidentally, the second part of the video where I talk about giving up the need to make a circle with your hand was the key to it for me. As soon as I surrendered and gave up, there it was. I could feel it. This was months into the process for me. The day after it clicked my whole arm really ached so much. It was weird. I was clearly using something that I hadn’t previously used in the body, and my body wasn't used to it.
The obvious question is what sort of instruction or exercise can one give a beginner that reduces that time from months to 10 minutes?
Maybe assuming people can get that connection in 8 weeks is a bit optimistic, but I think that if somebody had pointed me in that direction a bit sooner I’d have got it a bit sooner… (or they can keep repeating the 8 weeks as a cycle until progress is made).
"Connection" of what or which parts, specifically? What parts are you trying to connect? What mechanisms - physical and/or mental - are being used to make that connection? If one begins to delve deeper into what "connection" is and how it is achieved, one can identify specific mechanisms for how "connection" is attained. Identifying those mechanisms allows one to use specific exercises to teach, train and reinforce those mechanism. Just telling a beginner with no experience of "connection" to connect their hand to their foot isn't very effective. It's along the lines of the proverbial putting enough monkeys in a room with a typewriter for long enough for them to eventually recreate Shakespeare. Of the many who will repeat the 8 week cycle over and over and over again, a few will get it, but history suggests that most won't.
So, no. Stay with feelings, that’s where you’ll find it.
Depending upon what the "it" is that one is seeking, that's true.
Correct practice over time will yield results.
Agreed. Where we disagree is on what that correct practice is and how to effectively teach it.