middleway wrote:So, with that context and with how ill equipped he seemed to be against this simple control, both in terms of body power and tactical approach, what is the attraction to Chen Style tai chi for people who are looking for fighting, or even grappling skills?
middleway wrote:So, with that context and with how ill equiped he seemed to be against this simple control, both in terms of body power and tactical approach, what is the attraction to Chen Style tai chi for people who are looking for fighting, or even grappling skills?
Again ... not to be dickish, its an honest question.
middleway wrote:The question that comes to my head is this ... and i really dont mean this to be dickish..
CZQ is often touted as the apex of the 'fighters' from Chen Village. He has had more exposure to the art at its source than most people he will encounter, certainly more experience of Taiji than the clincher here and i would wager MANY more hours of total Martial Arts training. In fact i would wager he probably has more hours 'training martial arts' than most professional MMA fighters, Olympian Judoka or BJJ black belts.
I would expect an elite level martial artist of almost any style with Grappling to have the body wisdom and feel to be able to deal with this scenario in a much more useful way. I cant see an olympic level Judoka of CZQs size having any issue with this position and this partner for instance, even though they will never encounter it in their art.
So, with that context and with how ill equiped he seemed to be against this simple control, both in terms of body power and tactical approach, what is the attraction to Chen Style tai chi for people who are looking for fighting, or even grappling skills?
Again ... not to be dickish, its an honest question.
Ken Gullette on September 14, 2018 wrote:Can Tai Chi, Xingyi or Bagua be used against a grappler?
A lot of macho types say no, but that's because they do not understand the internal martial arts.
Tai Chi has been slandered, maligned and unfairly criticized during the past year or two because a couple of people who claimed to be Tai Chi "masters" (they are not masters) had the stupidity to take on a trained MMA fighter and they lost. Badly.
I had a Wing Chun guy come into my school once and he wanted to spar full-contact. I told him we didn't do that, but we would gladly spar with him and do light contact. We hit him in the face anytime we wanted. My top student and I both tried him out. It was pitiful, but I did not judge Wing Chun based on this guy.
The internal arts have principles and body mechanics that work if you follow them, just like any art. Sometimes, you simply have to fight. That includes punching. But sometimes, you use body mechanics to take advantage of your opponent's force or to break his structure.
This past Wednesday night at practice, three students -- Justin Snow, Colin Frye and Chris Andrews -- worked with me as I demonstrated how to escape from a clinch. We had a good time playing with this.
Justin and Chris are both around 300 pounds. They are strong guys, around 30 years old. They have experience fighting. Real fighting.
I am 65 with one lung, heart issues, and I lost a lot of muscle mass when I got sick 9 years ago.
They still can't hold me in a clinch if I use internal principles. And I can't hold them, either.
We had fun playing with this. Enjoy the video and I hope you learn from it. And remember, 850 video lessons and pdf downloads are available 24/7 on my membership website at http://www.internalfightingarts.com. Check it out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1aGEWyZz0k
windwalker wrote:I would suggest go back and look at the video the clinch being demoed is not the same clinch that was applied to the chen teacher.
In the clip with the chen teacher the one using the clinch was not applying a downward Force that he could borrow or slip out of.
a better demo would include somebody who knows how to clinch and why it's used.
marvin8 wrote:From William Miller's facebook page, William shows an escape from the same "proper" clinch.
William Miller
September 8 at 6:54 PM:
https://www.facebook.com/william.miller ... 07570/?t=8
You might follow your own suggestion. Because, it is the same clinch.
jaime_g wrote:You might follow your own suggestion. Because, it is the same clinch.
No, it's not. Completely different clinchs. In fact, calling "that" a clinch would be extremely generous, neither Gullette nor his partner were doing anything remotely similar to a proper clinch
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