dspyrido wrote:marvin8 wrote:The main point windwalker was arguing and what Ken Gullette was emphasizing is listen to and use the clincher's downward force to escape the clinch. Other discussions may not be as relevant.
They are different. It's in the elbows. Czq's opponent has pinched them in in an effort to "clinch". Kens mate leaves them slightly open. Almost loose.
Rightly so for kens guy. This clinch done right should feel like the jaw is being crushed or the blood is being cut off.
Done really right and strong taller guy would be jerking them around by the neck alone. I have my doubts kens neck would fair well in that outcome. A younger czq won't enjoy it but he seems to have more muscle in the region and youth on his side.
good eye
also what I noted in first looking at it...also look at the diffrence in the body line used by the clincher used in both demos....in the Czq clip the person is more upright this changes the focal point of the clinch making it harder to get out by dropping...in the other clip the person is leaning over the focal point is some place in the middle of both of them....enabling the teacher to take advantage of this,,,
jaime_g wrote:
Because they are different. Different body mechanics, different results. A thai clinch, a clueless neck grab committing yourself (Gullette's video) , and a "taiji hold" (nice one from Dmitri), use different mechanics.
it's the kind of thing that we can discuss forever but only lasts 5 seconds to demonstrate hands-on
others have noted it too....
This is why sometimes it can be very misleading using students to simulate things that are not used or taught that they
really don't know how to apply...many demos with people posing as boxers are subject to this giving the impression
that one as a lot time dealing with a punch when in fact they really don't. If they'er range and don't understand this
they'll understand it very quickly...
a noted lama hop gar exponent I know, in a conversation told me he has people who are thai boxers come to
his gym so that the people he trains can gain some first hand experience with them.