Trick wrote:Is this what you reach for during sparring ?
Never considered trying to use XY for sparring. My main interest has never been there.
Trick wrote:Is this what you reach for during sparring ?
Bao wrote:Trick wrote:Is this what you reach for during sparring ?
Never considered trying to use XY for sparring. My main interest has never been there.
johnwang wrote:You train how you will fight.
If you don't use it in sparring, why do you even train XingYi for?
Bao wrote:Trick wrote:Is this what you reach for during sparring ?
Never considered trying to use XY for sparring. My main interest has never been there.
Frankly, I don't see the point of this kind of practice. Might build bad habits but maybe it's good for practicing whole body movement. In the XY I've been taught moving the opponent is considered a mistake. The power taught penetrates very deep and makes the opponent go down, preferably just by one punch.
Use it for sparring, no. But sparring to be able to make use of it, yes?....It just seemed you where quite sure how you are able to make use of it when you wrote -
windwalker wrote:this is a straight right.
it shows:
penetration
ability to either displace or knock down
ability to stop someone on contact
can be practiced on a bag
can be used in sparring or in the ring, depends on intent of effect.
can some one high light the differences between it and what is said about
the effects of being hit by a bengquan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPumLDLVZJM
..
Graham wrote:Notice that in Bengquan the two fists cross over the top of each other, rather than being unconnected, and on different sides of the body.
. . . On a deeper level, the whole action of Bengquan is formed by the opening and closing of the body to move the arms. The section where the hands end up just in front of the body (meeting in the middle) is the ‘close’ part, the section where one hand punches out and the other retracts to the hip is the ‘open’ part.
Graham wrote:In Bengquan you step as you punch. You don’t land your feet, then punch, or punch without stepping.
Graham wrote:Notice that his back foot stays connected to the floor for a comparatively long time for a stepping-in punch. He’s keeping that ground connection for a long, long time.
Graham wrote:I believe that part of the purpose of this footwork is to aid a key feature that makes a Bengquan different to a regular straight punch – that is its ability to penetrate deeply into the target.
If you track the path of the fist in this example, it is on a slightly upward but mainly forward trajectory, like an arrow being shot from a bow. It goes right through the target in a straight line.
marvin8 wrote:This Mike Tyson vs Francois Botha clip is used to give a rough description of a kinetic chain punch sequence. Note that Mike's jab, slipping (defensive move) and loading of right rear hip takes the place of Consterdine's first hip action:
Mike has excellent separation between his stages of the kinetic chain. Mike takes small steps towards Botha. He feints a left jab (ward off) drawing Botha to slip inside and counter with an overhand right (typical counter to jab). This brings Mike's shoulders to a 90 degree angle to Botha. Mike slips (yields) to the right (loading his rear right hip by closing it), avoiding Botha's potential overhand right. Before Mike touches his left foot down he rotates his hips, transferring his weight to his left front hip. After he has rotated his hips a full 90 degrees, he then rotates his shoulders. After he rotates his shoulders a full 90 degrees and finally releases his punch.
Less successful boxers tend to rotate their hips and shoulders together.
marvin8 wrote:Excerpts from "Kinematic and kinetic analysis of throwing a straight punch: the role of trunk
rotation in delivering a powerful straight punch," https://efsupit.ro/images/stories/30dec ... %20287.pdf:RAT TONG-IAM1, PORNTHEP RACHANAVY2, CHAIPAT LAWSIRIRAT on December 08, 2017 wrote:The result showed straight punches had 3 stages, i.e., (1) starting position, (2) lead toe off, and (3) lead toe in. The results suggested that the final stage, lead toe in, was the most important in delivering powerful straight punches, and boxers used trunk rotation to transform vertical ground reaction force to horizontal punch force....
At this stage, boxers used the lead leg as a pivot point and executed straight punches such that only lead leg supported the body weight and the rear leg bore no GRF. At this stage, GRF of the rear leg decreased, while GRF of the lead leg increased, which was exactly opposite from the starting position or the first stage. From Figure 1d, the directions of GRF of the lead leg and punch force were not in the same direction. As a result, the participants utilized the lead leg as a break to stabilize their movement.... As seen in Figure 2, the kinetic chain of straight punches occurred after 70% of total punching time meaning that the whole kinetic chain was created and ended at this final stage....
Trunk Rotation in Straight Punches
Figure 1 shows phases of straight punches and GRFs for both legs.
Trunk rotation played significant role in transferring kinetic chain from the lower extremity to the upper extremity. Our results showed that the trunk was relatively unmoved at the beginning of punching as shown in Figure 2. The movement of trunk started approximately after 70% of total punching time (the right panel of Figure 2). The angular velocity tended to increase after this point. The participants, then, sped up trunk rotation after 80% of total punching time until impact.
The trunk rotation played crucial role in LTI or the final stage of punching. At LTI, the displacement angle of trunk rotation was greatest (at 80% of punching time). Angular velocity of trunk rotation increased as GRF of the lead leg increased while GRF of the rear leg decreased. The lead leg acted as a pivot point, while the rear leg pushed the trunk and the whole body of boxers forward to create punching momentum and, thus, punch force. Therefore, trunk rotation mechanically transferred vertical ground reaction forces to horizontal punching force. The peak angular velocity of trunk rotation was achieved at impact....
The final stage, which was lead toe in, was crucial in delivering powerful force.
Now with the clips and study, would you agree that, with the straight punch, "punch and foot land at the same time" generates less power than "foot first and then punch after that (properly sequenced kinetic chain punch)?" If not, what part of the clips or study do you disagree with?
johnwang wrote:Let's look at how many different ways that you can throw a straight punch.
1. boxing jab - step in leading leg, put body weight behind it, punch leading hand.
2. boxing cross - step in leading leg, put body weight behind it, add body rotation, punch back hand.
3. step in punch - step in leading leg, put body weight behind it, add body rotation, and step in the back leg, punch back hand.
IMO, 3 > 2 > 1
Here is an example of 3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O-RPfZIrr4
marvin8 wrote:Your example 3 description "punch back hand" does not match your video of Liu Yun Qiao. Liu Yun Qiao's punch is similar to boxing's step jab to the body. He is punching with lead hand. Can you clarify?
johnwang wrote:IMO, 3 > 2 > 1marvin8 wrote:Your example 3 description "punch back hand" does not match your video of Liu Yun Qiao. Liu Yun Qiao's punch is similar to boxing's step jab to the body. He is punching with lead hand. Can you clarify?
After you have stepped in, your back hand become your leading hand. The stepping in just switch sides for you.
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