cloudz wrote:gonna talk amongst myself then.
I can see why people want to or like to relate techniques to form movements. sometimes you can change or adapt things but keep the core mechanic other times it is too different and becomes something else. It's commonplace in tcc to view all sorts of techniques being linked to this or that bit of form; some convincing some not so convincing.
having done my fair share of this kind of exploration i think there's a better more fundamental way to view and conceptualise technique within the TCC framework. I see many TCC people getting stuck in this kind of box around them that mostly bounds people to their form movements give or take. What I have found though is with a good working knowledge of techniques and the 8 methods you can cover so much more, leaving the form as a kind of set of primary templates and examples.
To put this classic chinese wrestling example under that lense; we see that the main parts are a pulling (tsai) on one side and a use of the shoulder that turns and applies force from the other side and these two combine with the blocking off of the leg which uses a downward application of force. 3 points of contact each using one of the 8 methods of using force. One pulls one bumps and one pushes downward; this is tsai, kao and an combining. That's the core and further; The footwork can be a step back or step behind and there is also rotations present in the technique that need to be well executed.
This I feel is a much better lense or comparative view or conceptualization than trying to mine bits and pieces from forms and or trying to find a place for something that was never really there. 'As is' I don't believe this move exists in Yang, Wu or CPL form, all of which i've practiced. In parts, in principal in methodology - yes.
oragami itto wrote:To an extent I disagree, mapping sensible martial arts techniques onto the movements of the form can serve as a means of teaching the principles behind the techniques to students without a prior depth of fighting knowledge.
Steve James wrote:Imo, it uses the concept of a knee pick --which isn't dependent on system/style. It doesn't need to be equated to a specific tcc form, but that doesn't mean that a specific form couldn't be used for it. There can be many possible ways to apply the technique, but they depend on biomechanics and opportunity.
cloudz wrote:oragami itto wrote:To an extent I disagree, mapping sensible martial arts techniques onto the movements of the form can serve as a means of teaching the principles behind the techniques to students without a prior depth of fighting knowledge.
I really don't have a problem with that at all, it's something I'm happy to do - and do so. I just think the bounderies get too blurry at times and people take things a little too far than is necessary in that direction. Sometimes looking to the form for the 'answers', when they could do better (IMO) looking at the 8 methods alternatively or a pick and mix type mentality to the form components, bringing out new combination of movements etc. Different words coming from the alphabet soup if you like..
chock full of cautionary tales this week eh.
wayne hansen wrote:Straight out of the form
Cloud hands
I wouldn't use it from the inside but it works well from the outside
cloudz wrote:Does that move really follow the double strike in your form?
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