Ward Off Training!!! Tai Chi Push Hands — Jan Lucanus

[marvin8]

Sports Tai Chi Push Hands aka Mindful Wrestling
Streamed live on Nov 27, 2018:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uP8woEiOWI

[origami_itto]

Watching so far, the first exercise looks like it might develop more stiffness than peng.

Second one sort of confirms it, that bracing against the partners force, while useful in the context of certain methods, is not really taijiquan as I understand it, it is the habit I'm trying to train myself out of through the exercises of taijjiquan.

Third is just more of the same. The "push" should be a proper issue, not just throwing meat at the bag, and the catch should yield, not brace and bounce. I think it could be useful if done properly.

That's all I got the time to watch at the moment.

Very interesting, thanks for sharing.

[Bao]

If you want to develop common wrestling skills relying on brute force, why not just practice common wrestling?

[marvin8]

If you want to develop common wrestling skills relying on brute force, why not just practice common wrestling?

Maybe he's training students to enter tai chi push hands tournaments.

Jan has extensive experience in tai chi and push hands tournaments. Past RSF thread: https://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12095

Excerpt from wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Lucanus:

Martial arts
Lucanus' mother coerced his father into taking Taiji Quan, Karate, and Shaolin Kung Fu as a way for the couple to share quality time before Lucanus was born. The son was raised around his parents' martial arts masters and fellow students in Chinatown, Manhattan in New York. Lucanus has taught martial arts professionally since the age of 16.

In addition to studying under his first teacher, his father, Jan C. Childress,[83] in the martial arts styles of Yang Tai Chi Chuan, Praying Mantis Kung Fu, and various sets of Neigong (nei kung, internal power building exercises), Lucanus has studied numerous fighting systems. Lucanus' primary Tai Chi teacher was his father's teacher, Sifu Keith Tong – a doctor of Chinese Herbal Medicine whose father, Tong Kwan Tak,[84] was a direct disciple of Wu Kung-i, a master of the Wu Family Style of Tai Chi Chuan – as well as Sifu Chang Ki Chan who passed down the esoteric style of Liuhebafa to Jan's father. Jan trained under Shaolin monk Shi Yan Ming at the U. S. A. Shaolin Temple,[85] but was asked to leave the school after fighting in his first tournament – the International Kung Fu Strike Challenge – to win first place and earn a spot on renowned Beijing coach Li Ti Liang's [86] New York International San Shou Team.[87] San Shou (or Sanshou) is a full contact fighting sport that combined American boxing, Chinese kickboxing, and Mongolian wrestling (it now incorporates knee and elbow strikes and is known as San Da). Lucanus, at 18 years old, fought on the 2000–2001 team captained by veteran martial arts practitioner, Novell G. Bell,[88] and faced off against Beijing's professional San Shou team in two separate events held at New York's Maritime Hotel. Considered an underdog with his teammates against the Beijing pros that were also formerly coached by Li Ti Liang, Lucanus won a Silver Cup in the fights for the 165 lb. weight class under his San Shou fighting nickname, "The Gentleman" . Lucanus dropped off the team to focus on film school (which he was attending while on the team) and began training in Tae Kwon Do and Dragon Style Kung Fu with his long-time friend, Ian Morgan, choreographer of many of Lucanus' action film sequences, and a champion Muay Thai fighter.[89]

As was standard fair in the Chinatown martial arts community, challenges from other martial artists looking to test their skill level came regularly to Lucanus' weekly 3-hour Tai Chi class with Sifu Keith Tong in Chinatown's Forsythe Park, and Lucanus and his father regularly sought challenges. One day, while Lucanus was on set wrapping production for his NYU senior thesis film, "Justice-For-Hire",[90] his class was challenged by former childhood chess champion Joshua Waitzkin, who had become a top student of the renowned Grandmaster William C. C. Chen and was in training for the Tai Chi Chung Hwa World Cup.[91] The father/son duo decided to re-enter the U. S. martial arts tournament circuit together as a team in the sport of Tai Chi Push Hands to compete against Josh (pushing hands – also known as "t'ui shou" – as played in the Tai Chi World Cup, is a competition combining elements of throwing and grappling arts such as Sumo & Greco-Roman Wrestling, Judo, Aikido, and Shuai Jiao with the principles of Tai Chi). The father/son duo won several medals at the 2004 International Chinese Martial Arts Competition in Orlando, Florida in 2004,[92] but the gold medals were swept Josh and his teammate Daniel Caulfield. After the tournament, the father/son duo was invited to join the first William C. C. Chen (WCCC) U.S. Push Hands Team coached by Josh. The team, consisting of Josh Waitzkin, Daniel Caulfield, Jan C. Childress, Jan Lucanus, Trevor Cohen, Irving Yee, Calum Douglas-Reid, Maximillion Chen, and Parichard Holm, took several trophies at the 2004 Tai Chi World Cup in Taipei, Taiwan. Jan's father took the Bronze World Cup for his weight class. Josh Waitzkin took the title of World Champion, and documented the experience in his book, The Art of Learning: An Inner Journey to Optimal Performance.[93]

After the 2005 season, the original WCCC International Push Hands Team disbanded. Several students shifted focus to Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (BJJ), and Josh introduced Lucanus to Professor John Machado (who would later become a creative partner and mentor for Jan and an advisor for his company). Subsequently, Lucanus trained in the De La Riva[94] system of BJJ under Professor Jamie Alexandrino,[95] Shuai Jiao, freestyle wrestling, and Chan Tai San's Tapered Staff form under Sifu David Ross[96] at the New York San Da MMA gym, and in Olympic Judo, Greco-Roman Wrestling, and Jujutsu under Sensei Shiro Oishi of Oishi Judo Club[97] – one of New York City's oldest judo clubs located in TriBeCa. Lucanus also studied Boxing, Muay Thai, and San Da with Ian Morgan, Ian's protege Brandon Jones, and their Seiha Army fight team,[98] as well as mixed martial arts with William C. C. Chen's son, Maximillion C. J. Chen.[99]

In 2008, Lucanus founded the Martial Arts Creative Team (MACT)[100] to design unique action choreography for comic books, films, and beyond,[101] as well as a unique style of camerawork to capture the choreography called "Weapon Camera Movement".[102] Members include Ian Morgan, John Machado, Maximillion Chen, Mercer Boffey, Aurore Barry,[59] Hinton Wells, Gabe Dorado, Glenyss Puentavella, and Jordan Forth.[103]

In 2009, the William C. C. Chen's (WCCC) U. S. Tai Chi Push Hands Team was reignited, and Lucanus returned as the official captain of the team for the 2009-2011 seasons, running training and tournament preparation, as well as competing alongside his father and Calum Douglas-Reid, and new team members Jordan Forth, Eric William Johnson, Kan Kanzaki, and J. J. Blickstein. Lucanus, his father, and the team won several gold medals on the International Chinese Martial Arts Circuit (ICMAC), with the father/son duo taking gold medals[104][105] in the ICMAC's first tournament to use Extreme Push Hands rules (full body grappling with Tai Chi space control tactics within a ring) organized by Dr. Shie-Ming Hwang[106] and Nick Scrima.[107] Several members of the WCCC Team ranked number one in numerous weight classes for the 2010 season.[108] Jan used the ICMAC tournaments just as his coach Josh Waitzkin did before him: as preparation for the Tai Chi World Cup in Taiwan. Jan competed and won the silver World Cup medal on October 4, 2010 in Taiwan for Push Hands in the 165 lbs. weight class, while his father once again won the bronze World Cup medal in the 185 lbs. weight class.[109] However, also as his former coach Josh before him, despite the accumulation of several international titles and medals, Jan's style of competitive push hands has received criticisms within the tai chi community for being "all wrong".[110]

In 2012, Lucanus began training in Bruce Lee's philosophy of Jeet Kune Do with Sifu Sam Levine at the Combative Arts Academy[111] while continuing his training in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu with John Machado and Tai Chi Chuan with his private students.

[Bao]

“Jan's style of competitive push hands has received criticisms within the tai chi community for being "all wrong".”

Lol!

[Trick]

Don’t know if that quote actually tells his skill is bad or good ? However in the link to the othe RSF thread his Taijiquan performance was laughed at by people on sight observing him

[taiwandeutscher]

And he was a very lousy looser, when competing in Taiwans's 2nd world cup. The whole W.C.C. Chen group did nothing than complain, not nice to watch.

[charles]

Watching so far, the first exercise looks like it might develop more stiffness than peng.

A useful skill in Taijiquan is to be able to maintain a point of contact with a partner/opponent while moving around that point in such a way that the opponent does not feel any change. However, if doing that against a bag, the bag should not move as one changes around the point of contact with the bag. As demonstrated in the video by the students, the bag is pushed away, the change occurs, then the bag reverts to its original position.

As for the maintaining the point of contact while switching legs, as in the exercise in the video, it seems not very useful - expect, perhaps, in the context of specific competition rules. It doesn't appear to be advancing/attacking or retreating/neutralizing to gain advantage.

[Bao]

And he was a very lousy looser, when competing in Taiwans's 2nd world cup. The whole W.C.C. Chen group did nothing than complain, not nice to watch.

Not surprised.

Next time someone should buy them tiaras so they can walk around like little princesses. If you are only interested about winning why not just wrestle with small children? Then you can always win.

@Charles, Good points.

[Bugang]

Anybody knows if Sifu Keith Tong's Class in Chinatown's Forsythe Park is still happening - when and where?

[Appledog]

Hello, I'd like to maintain a 'cool post count' of 108 posts. This particular post has gone beyond that number and has therefore expired.

I'm sorry if you were looking for some old information but I'll do my best to answer you if you send me a DM with a question in it.

[wayne hansen]

I have noticed a trend in Malaysia of hard style schools entering pushing hand comps
And they are winning
Says something

[marvin8]

“Jan's style of competitive push hands has received criticisms within the tai chi community for being "all wrong".”

Lol!

I seriously do not understand why people need to use the name "Tai Chi" in place of "Chinese Kung Fu". The guy did Preying mantis, Shaolin, Karate and Taekwondo? Fine, call it what it is, lol -- MMA. This is the guy that quit training Shaolin with Shi Yan Ming and Sanda in Beijing to go to study Taekwondo -- with a friend -- who was a muay thai fighter slash action movie choreographer.
I would go to this guy to learn MMA (scratch that I'd go to his friend who is a champion Muay Thai fighter), but his tai chi is BS. Come on guys, enough of the trolling. You all know this is BS. This is why good people don't post here.

I don't have an opinion on Jan. However, he does have a tai chi background—which I highlighted in blue. Others have critiqued Jan and gave reasons why, which is fine.

There is no trolling on my part. Calling BS without any reason and implying Jan has no tai chi experience to me is trolling. You might want to take your own advice, "enough of the trolling."

[taiwandeutscher]

I have noticed a trend in Malaysia of hard style schools entering pushing hand comps
And they are winning
Says something

In Taiwan, they come from Judo and Shuai Jiao, if there is a price money, also winning most categories.

Jan? He didn't win in TW's world championships without price money, therefor no Judokas nor Shuai Jiao guys, and he was a sour looser like most of his group. Taiwanese weren't really impressed, lol!

[Appledog]

Hello, I'd like to maintain a 'cool post count' of 108 posts. This particular post has gone beyond that number and has therefore expired.

I'm sorry if you were looking for some old information but I'll do my best to answer you if you send me a DM with a question in it.