everything wrote:I agree with cloudz about the "weight distribution". The part in the "classic" right before this part talks about the wheel. The part before that talks about sticking, following, neutralizing, leading to emptiness, don't use force vs. force as that means bigger/stronger naturally wins. I don't see mention of feet, weight distribution, footwork, balance between your feet, blah blah blah. The popularity of the CMC/ZMQ 100/0 point in the USA and the obvious criticality of footwork, balance, etc. probably got people looking too much at "weight distribution" rather than this more fundamental point of don't have "double heavy".
oragami_itto wrote:marvin8 wrote:
Examples of top Soccer Players using Internal Discipline of Classical Tai Chi to generate power in their long ball kicking movements-examples from World Cup 2018:
That's a bit misleading, isn't it? It's not like these soccer players are studying taijiquan and applying it to their game. They're just playing soccer and this person is just saying it looks like T'ai-Chi principles.
Meh.
Stephen Hwa wrote:One of our kicking exercises is exactly what you will see the soccer player will do. . . . These top soccer players know how to utilize this yin and yang concept in their kicking routine. . . . You will see a very contrasting situation in the body: stable and dynamic. In our tai chi training, this is very important. Train people how to achieve this at what we call yin and yang of the body moving and unmoving part of the body. To achieve this in a split second situation is most difficult. And, this is what separates a top player from just a good player.
oragami_itto wrote:So anything that looks like taijiquan to Stephen Kwa is taijiquan even if the people involved have never heard the word taijiquan. Makes perfect sense. Let's just call everything taijiquan, why throwing a baseball is just like brush knee, that must be taijiquan too!
I gotta say, that makes it MUCH easier to study. I'll just do whatever the hell I want and say "Hey, I'm shifting my weight... this is clearly taijiquan."
oragami_itto wrote:This is a dumb argument.
My point is, they are not using "Internal Discipline of Classical T'ai-Chi". . . .
Just because something appears to use the same mechanics based on an external observation doesn't mean it actually uses the same mechanics. I dunno. Maybe for Stephen it does, maybe for YOU it does. For me, the most substantial, and most difficult portion of the work involved with training this is invisible from the outside.
marvin8 wrote:charles wrote:oragami_itto wrote:I don't know, what do you think?
Not so fast. Over the course of 7 pages, you've stated what double-weighted means. Here's a chance to apply that understanding to a simple posture/move that everyone knows and is found in every Taiji form in one variation or another. I'm asking you to think about it and apply your understanding to that common posture/move.
Given that nearly every practitioner of Taijiquan practices some kind of form, and nearly every form contains the posture/move in question, and that most experienced practitioners have practiced this posture/move hundreds or thousands of times, the answer should just roll off one's tongue, right?
I agree that there are pages of definitions without apparent understanding/explanation on how to apply it to a common posture/move or an opponent.
oragami_itto wrote:. . . They're using the discipline of soccer practice, some of which might arguably be said to express some of the same concepts and principles as you might find in a given system of T'ai-Chi Ch'uan.
marvin8 wrote:Hwa says, "top soccer players know how to utilize this yin and yang concept" and that soccer kick is exactly the same biomechanics as his Wu style kicking. . . .
Yin and Yang can be found in everything: tai chi, soccer, baseball, boxing, etc.
oragami_itto wrote:So basically, my point, my main idea, the thesis of this stupid argument, is that while T'ai-Chi Ch'uan may look like other things sometimes, we don't train it like other things. Even if you wind up at what appears to be the same place as someone who took a different route, it's a disservice to both disciplines to conflate them.
Taijiquan just isn't that "special".
oragami_itto wrote: Mine is a system for fundamentally reorganizing my body.
I've never personally seen anything else that resembles it in method or results.
I've never met a soccer player who felt like steel wrapped in cotton.
You don't get taijiquan by studying soccer. You get it by studying taijiquan.
oragami_itto wrote:Kwa on the other hand, by using the films as a reference to study his Taijiquan is using concepts (not discipline) of soccer practice to generate power.
Like I said, dumb argument, don't care, his video title is misleading. Not going to change my mind or argue further. Honestly... Don't care.
marvin8 wrote:Please present your argument against Hwa's detailed video explaining the biomechanics of the soccer kick and Wu style kick (posture/move) are the same. IOW, how they are different:
marvin8 wrote:If you can discuss what tai chi's "double weight" theory adds or how it is different, I would be interested in hearing.
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