Shi Ming - Ling Kong Jong

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Shi Ming - Ling Kong Jong

Postby wingchun on Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:24 pm

Has anyone on here ever touched hands with Shi Ming. or experienced this type of Ling Kong Jing phenomenon as demoed in this clip. If so can you please explain what's going on here? Is this "airborn skill" a result of a sort of mental agreement between the two -- the issuer and the issuee in a "game of perception"? or is this some form of the power of suggestion or hypnosis? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzIjUR-mHCY
wingchun
Mingjing
 
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:51 am

Re: Shi Ming - Ling Kong Jong

Postby Peacedog on Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:56 am

Never met Shi Ming. But I've known more than a few people who can do this. It's also one of the skills we train in the school of Hermetics I'm from.

In many cases it is an example of conditioned behavior. The guy believes it will happen...so it happens.

That said, it can be trained. First you start with standard fah jing type drills and make it softer. Then it is touching from a standstill, which was demoed in the video. Then you do no touch.

It's not martially usable for the most part. It is very useful for training the soft tissue in the body in the beginning and later on specific energies fundamental to the body. The no touch techniques, for example, train mental energy.
Peacedog
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1675
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 5:22 am
Location: Standing right next to your girl....

Re: Shi Ming - Ling Kong Jong

Postby windwalker on Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:28 am

wingchun wrote:Has anyone on here ever touched hands with Shi Ming. or experienced this type of Ling Kong Jing phenomenon as demoed in this clip.

Spent some 10yrs doing my own research regarding this working with my teacher who could do all that was shown and more.
Whether touched or not the function is the same. The clip posted touches on the basics of theory by which it works.

It might help in framing your questions for better answers. The effect itself is part of a much lager skill set that the clip covers..


If so can you please explain what's going on here? Is this "airborn skill" a result of a sort of mental agreement between the two -- the issuer and the issuee in a "game of perception"? or is this some form of the power of suggestion or hypnosis? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzIjUR-mHCY



The basics of what, why, and how it works can be found here in this clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQsBJRTPPJc
Last edited by windwalker on Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
rule 19
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 7550
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Re: Shi Ming - Ling Kong Jong

Postby HotSoup on Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:49 am

wingchun wrote:Is this "airborn skill" a result of a sort of mental agreement between the two -- the issuer and the issuee in a "game of perception"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzIjUR-mHCY

This is what I believe it is, a learned behavior. This is not applicable to a random person, only to those trained to act like that.
windwalker wrote:Spent some 10yrs doing my own research regarding this working with my teacher who could do all that was shown and more.

Can you or your teacher do this to a random person? Will the attempt look similar to this?

windwalker wrote:The basics of what, why, and how it works can be found here in this clip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQsBJRTPPJc

Even with all conventionality of this clip, it describes a physical skill. What is happening in the OP video is far from that.
Last edited by HotSoup on Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
HotSoup
Anjing
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:20 am

Re: Shi Ming - Ling Kong Jong

Postby oragami_itto on Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:55 am

I remember back on empty flower when we used to discuss mentalists. In my opinion this no touch stuff is just an offshoot of the same skills, taking advantage of the mark's desire to believe.

There's some skill to it, but nothing that would prevent a fist to the face.
"My own knowledge is shallow and I await corrections from the intelligent."
-Hermit of Jade Well
User avatar
oragami_itto
Wuji
 
Posts: 1918
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:11 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Shi Ming - Ling Kong Jong

Postby windwalker on Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:05 am

HotSoup wrote:Even with all conventionality of this clip, it describes a physical skill. What is happening in the OP video is far from that.


When you start to understand what you feel you know you would see the clip in a different way.
One could argue about what was shown in the clip, the point would be?

As to your other questions. Think about it.

Many who came to practice with my teacher came from other styles, often having the same questions and doubts
as some have expressed here, most stayed like myself finding something that was unique and answered many questions that I or they may have had..

The underpinnings of what, why and how are indeed shown in the clip.
If one, or you feel what is shown in the clip is a physical skill should be easy to replicate...Most can not, which why they tend to feel its faked, complaint, what ever.

If one can do it they should either understand, or know how, what, and why what is called kong jin, works.

start by understanding that
"jin" is something that goes through ones own body and effects another going through the point of contact to do so to effect
what? ..

It's a very basic understanding between what is called external force and what is not....

The OP posted a question with some ill informed assumptions. There is no easy way to explain it with out first having
some basic understanding....to expound on.

There are many clips of kong jin, fails, there are also many clips of CMA fails.
There are no clips that I have seen showing CMA working as practiced in a competitive environment.

Does this mean CMA as a whole doen't work and is not effective?
Last edited by windwalker on Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
rule 19
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 7550
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Re: Shi Ming - Ling Kong Jong

Postby windwalker on Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:12 am

oragami_itto wrote:I remember back on empty flower when we used to discuss mentalists. In my opinion this no touch stuff is just an offshoot of the same skills, taking advantage of the mark's desire to believe.

There's some skill to it, but nothing that would prevent a fist to the face.




wrong way to look at it.

the skill set allows one to feel the intent often before the other even consciously
understands their own actions. There would be no face to hit.

The other would be missing and trying to hit something, getting hit in attempting to do so.

lets start by

Do you or others believe in "qi" if the answer is yes,
what is shown and practiced is an extension of this.

The practice itself is a small part of a much larger practice
rule 19
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 7550
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Re: Shi Ming - Ling Kong Jong

Postby HotSoup on Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:44 am

windwalker wrote:When you start to understand what you feel you know you would see the clip in a different way.
One could argue about what was shown in the clip, the point would be?

As to your other questions. Think about it.

Many who came to practice with my teacher came from other styles, often having the same questions and doubts as some have expressed here,
most stay like myself finding something that was unique and answered many questions that I or others may have had..

The underpinnings of what, why and how are indeed shown in the clip.
If one or you feel what is shown in the clip is a physical skill should be easy to replicate...Most can not, which why they tend to feel its faked, complaint, what ever.

If one can do it they should either understand or know how, what, and why what is called kong jin, works.

start by understanding that
"jin" is something that goes through ones own body and effects another going through the point of contact to do so..

It's a very basic understanding between what is force and what is not....

The OP posted a question with some ill informed assumptions. There is no easy way to explain it with out first having
some basic understanding....to expound on.


There are many clips of kong jin, fails, there are also many clips of CMA fails.
There are no clips that I have seen showing CMA working as practiced in a competitive environment.
Does this mean CMA as a whole doen't work and is not effective?


"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" (C) —C. Sagan

I don't really see how making an appeal to some people that like to train with your teacher or others, who failed as CMA practitioners actually prove your claim. I respect your desire to convince others that jin can travel between the bodies without any physical contact, but it doesn't seem as something compliant with the laws of physics. Of course, I admit that my limited knowledge may not allow me to recognize such a potentially high level of MA achievement, but it should be relatively easy to prove me wrong. Furthermore, had you decided to conduct a proper blind experiment with people not training with you and having no clue of such paranormal abilities of yours, a few years ago you could even earn 1 million dollars offered by the James Randy Foundation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Milli ... _Challenge).

The brave people from the video I posted above, actually tried to prove their abilities with non-cooperative opponents. The results, as you could see, were deplorable.
Last edited by HotSoup on Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
HotSoup
Anjing
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:20 am

Re: Shi Ming - Ling Kong Jong

Postby windwalker on Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:05 am

HotSoup wrote:I don't really see how making an appeal to some people that like to train with your teacher or others, who failed as CMA practitioners actually prove your claim. .



Others can always meet to see what or who failed what.
Nothing to prove. Making an "appeal" right .


As usale many things on this site can be written about with out question, when what is shown is questioned its often
the same ones writing about it for the most part, are also the same ones attempting to discredit it. Always find it strange but
expected.

What is demoed by most teachers are "demos" showing a skill set...its not how its used, nor why.
The skill is developed as part of a larger training system shown in the clip posted.

Met people in China, and lately in Taiwan who've felt it as part of a larger skill set.....

They op asked about those with experience with it, I suppose looking for their thoughts.

If those with out, or think they know want to answer...
go for it :-\
rule 19
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 7550
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Re: Shi Ming - Ling Kong Jong

Postby windwalker on Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:14 am

wingchun wrote:Has anyone on here ever touched hands with Shi Ming. or experienced this type of Ling Kong Jing phenomenon as demoed in this clip. If so can you please explain what's going on here? Is this "airborn skill" a result of a sort of mental agreement between the two -- the issuer and the issuee in a "game of perception"? or is this some form of the power of suggestion or hypnosis? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzIjUR-mHCY


The clip posted was out of context coming from a much larger film..It might help to put into context by reviewing the while clip.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4QM4eyBhuk
rule 19
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 7550
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Re: Shi Ming - Ling Kong Jong

Postby HotSoup on Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:14 am

windwalker wrote:Others can always meet to see what or who failed what.
Nothing to prove. Making an "appeal" right .


As usale many things on this site can be written about with out question, when what is shown is questioned its often
the same ones writing about it for the most part, are also the same ones attempting to discredit it. Always find it strange but
expected.

What is demoed by most teachers are "demos" showing a skill set...its not how its used, nor why.
The skill is developed as part of a larger training system shown in the clip posted.

Met people in China, and lately in Taiwan who've felt it as part of a larger skill set.....

They op asked about those with experience with it, I suppose looking for their thoughts.

If those with out, or think they know want to answer...
go for it :-\


In my turn, I cannot deny anyone's right to stay in their illusory bubble. Feel free to stay in it for another 10 or as many years as you desire :)
User avatar
HotSoup
Anjing
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:20 am

Re: Shi Ming - Ling Kong Jong

Postby Appledog on Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:44 am

If LKJ is a part of CMA why is there no posture anywhere in CMA which utilizes lin kong jin in application? In fact it is trivially easy to point out that LKJ does not appear anywhere in CMA. Such so that the question should probably be asked why not, and since why not what message that sends to people who practice CMA.

I personally speculate that LKJ is some kind of Pavlovian feint, finding some way to cause your opponent to flinch, such as the master who kiais before every punch then notices his kiai can sometimes disable or help to stun his opponent. Bruce lee was famous for this kind of feint which he threw into most of his attacks but you literally have to go frame by frame in his fights to make it out in the blurs; but it's there. This is the best of what it could be, but assuming that it will work to the point that you use it as a go to technique is going to get you into trouble someday. That is just not how CMA works; no higher level form for advanced players exists which uses LKJ, and that makes me question it's ultimate utility in martial arts.
Appledog
Huajing
 
Posts: 418
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:39 pm

Re: Shi Ming - Ling Kong Jong

Postby oragami_itto on Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:16 pm

On the other hand, there are records of high level taijiquan players allowing others to strike them and observing no effect, or hurting their hands, or being thrown back violently. But it occurs through contact.

I believe in Qi but not Qi.
"My own knowledge is shallow and I await corrections from the intelligent."
-Hermit of Jade Well
User avatar
oragami_itto
Wuji
 
Posts: 1918
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:11 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Shi Ming - Ling Kong Jong

Postby GrahamB on Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:08 pm

wingchun wrote:Has anyone on here ever touched hands with Shi Ming. or experienced this type of Ling Kong Jing phenomenon as demoed in this clip. If so can you please explain what's going on here? Is this "airborn skill" a result of a sort of mental agreement between the two -- the issuer and the issuee in a "game of perception"? or is this some form of the power of suggestion or hypnosis? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzIjUR-mHCY


At least that kid at the end of the clip got a hair cut eventually :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXxyuRp ... 0LQm8oPgBe
While having drinks with Tibor Kalman one night, he told me, “When you make something no one hates, no one fucking loves it.” Bollocks to Brexit.
http://www.hereticspodcast.com http://taichinotebook.wordpress.com
User avatar
GrahamB
Great Old One
 
Posts: 11892
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:30 pm

Re: Shi Ming - Ling Kong Jong

Postby oragami_itto on Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:41 pm

GrahamB wrote:
wingchun wrote:Has anyone on here ever touched hands with Shi Ming. or experienced this type of Ling Kong Jing phenomenon as demoed in this clip. If so can you please explain what's going on here? Is this "airborn skill" a result of a sort of mental agreement between the two -- the issuer and the issuee in a "game of perception"? or is this some form of the power of suggestion or hypnosis? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzIjUR-mHCY


At least that kid at the end of the clip got a hair cut eventually :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXxyuRp ... 0LQm8oPgBe


Does anybody have a link of some hard info where that guy admits the demo for Moyers was staged and fake?
"My own knowledge is shallow and I await corrections from the intelligent."
-Hermit of Jade Well
User avatar
oragami_itto
Wuji
 
Posts: 1918
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:11 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Next

Return to Xingyiquan - Baguazhang - Taijiquan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Martin and 1 guest