charles wrote:I think that what he shows is the stuff beginners are usually taught and is in large measure what keeps people at a beginner level: they start off with self-limiting concepts/actions and spend the rest of their Taiji days trying to better do what they were first shown and only works against other beginners. I don’t think what he has shown there will lead a student to the higher level skills for which Taiji was famous.
nicklinjm wrote:@Charles - would be very interested if you could explain a bit more on why you think the way he talks about the concepts in the video is self-limiting.
charles wrote:nicklinjm wrote:@Charles - would be very interested if you could explain a bit more on why you think the way he talks about the concepts in the video is self-limiting.
It's a deep rabbit hole. I'm not sure how deep I want to go down it.
Let me attempt it in simple terms and broad brush strokes. Everyone who's ever studied Taijiquan knows we're supposed to do something with Yin and Yang, something about distinguishing one from the other, separating one from the other... Not many practitioners have an explicit method for doing that. Some say things like, "If the palm is facing this way, it is Yin and if the palm is facing that way, it is Yang... so one is Yin and the other is Yang..." That doesn't mean much practical when working with an uncooperative/semi-cooperative partner.
If one pulls on one's partner, the partner can either resist or follow/be dragged in the direction of the pull. If the partner resists - opposing with an oppositely directed force, whomever is stronger wins. It is a tug of war. As I learned it, that isn't any of the principles of Taijiquan, that the stronger one wins. If the partner follows the direction of the pull, it is easy for the partner to simple push in the direction of your pull, overwhelming you as you pull. Again, this isn't one of the principles of Taijiquan, that I apply force to an opponent who then adds to my force to overcome me. Similar things happen if one pushes one's opponent, instead of pulling. The "error" is there is no distinguishing yin from yang: all of one's actions are in one direction, be it a push or a pull. Pulling while rotating to the side is a minor variation: all of one's actions are still rotating in one direction towards one direction. This is what is demonstrated in the video. It is also what most beginners are taught as neutralization/yielding: recede - everything moving to the rear - while turning everything in one direction. It works on beginners. It doesn't, generally, work on anyone who doesn't know the game - that I'm going to recede and turn and you are supposed to passively keep pushing as you were - or is beyond a beginner level.
If you've followed my description thus far - and agree that that isn't the stuff of high-level skills - the obvious question, then, is what should one be doing to be "effective"? THAT is the $10k question. Until one arrives at that question, one continues to do the beginner-level stuff of pulling while turning. If your partner goes along with the "rules" of that particular game, everyone is happy and it seems "effective". When your partner doesn't do what the rules say he's supposed to do, and either walks right through your "gate", or shoulder-strikes you in the middle of your chest, knocking you 10 feet away on your rear, you're surprised 'cause it's always worked before and that's what you were taught to do as neutralization - it's what you were taught as the application for "Roll Back".
everything wrote:roll back as one is taught as a beginner ime works exactly the same in judo, bjj, etc..
charles wrote:. To claim it is different and then train it like any other art is to fool oneself.
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests