But in Yang style, and derivatives, these moves have gone.
BruceP wrote:As Swede said, cloud-hands is rife with elbow - both inside-to outside and outside-to-inside simultaneously. It's one big transition.
The image of elbow's trigram, tui, is lake. Its attribute is joyous - not placid but breaking and rolling maybe, like on a windy day. The substantiality of Chou is hidden in a soft, gentle appearance. Steps like waves, hands like clouds.
GrahamB wrote: Why is "knee" or "foot" or "head" not one of the 8 powers?
BruceP wrote:One doesn't 'train' elbow per se, just like one doesn't 'train' knee beyond awareness of its role in energy circulation and/or transfer.
D_Glenn wrote:There’s a video clip of CXW demonstrating some of what I believe is called the 18 Elbows form, which has some overt nailing elbow strikes. But the fist protecting heart is more of a qin na- see
Steve James wrote:However, I'm not sure, but how many movements in the Chen form are titled specifically strike with elbow? Are there many? Do you think that because they aren't named that they can't be there? I'm pretty sure you don't.
charles wrote:In various Chen lineages, the knee is explicitly trained, both in solo and two-person practice. It is implicitly trained every time one lifts one foot to step forward - keeping in mind that much of the stepping in Chen style is oblique, rather than face-on
GrahamB wrote:If you are a Yang or derivative, stylist, how do you train 'elbow' in your form, since the overt moves are gone?
charles wrote:One of the questions that Chen stylists often get from other Taijiquan style practitioners is why they practice forms with the elbow up/horizontally near shoulder height, versus, say, Yang style where the elbows are generally pointing downwards towards the ground. (However, during application, the elbows should never be up, unless needed for striking upwards or horizontally to the side.) The primary reason is to explicitly train the...
charles wrote:One of the questions that Chen stylists often get from other Taijiquan style practitioners is why they practice forms with the elbow up/horizontally near shoulder height, versus, say, Yang style where the elbows are generally pointing downwards towards the ground. (However, during application, the elbows should never be up, unless needed for striking upwards or horizontally to the side.) The primary reason is to explicitly train the use of the elbow and "qi flow" from middle to extremities (e.g. fingers) via a pathway that includes the elbow. In Yang style, there is the expression, "Rooted in the feet, directed by the waist and expressed in the hand". In Chen style there is the expression, "The whole body is a fist". Taken together, the basic force-generating mechanics are the same regardless of whether or not the "expression" is in the hand, elbow, shoulder, chest... One simply choses to where the force is directed, including the elbow. When directed to the elbow, the pathway is "cut short" so that instead of reaching the fingers/hand it stops at the elbow.
BruceP wrote:Yang's training of body awareness and Wu's Thirteen Torso Methods share, "sink the elbows" (a thousand pounds hanging from each elbow).
Bao wrote:That the elbows should never be out or up is a mistake, IMO.
robert wrote:
Zhou is one of the jin. That's not the same thing as a technique or application. If you do a simple single arm circle with jin it has peng, ji, an, and lu. The ji part of the circle contains kao and zhou. As others have said - it runs throughout the form.
Yang Zhendou, for whatever it's worth, stated that the "secret" of Yang style is to keep the elbows down, pointed at the floor.
Yang Zhendou, for whatever it's worth, stated that the "secret" of Yang style is to keep the elbows down, pointed at the floor. It's one of YCF's 10 important points. In my experience, once you have the body mechanics down [pun intended? ], you can largely do what you want, elbows up or down.
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