Giles wrote:Appledog wrote: Yes, your training path should help you to reach to your goal. But the other side of this is that, just based on the posts on this thread, no one has any idea what that goal is, nor do they follow any kind of training path to get there. More than anything this thread demonstrates a rejection and refusal to follow a more traditional approach. Is anyone really suprised then when after 10 or 20 years there are still debates over whether or not Qi exists let alone being able to fight using their art?
It just boggles my mind how the first thing people do when they want to fight using taiji is throw out the taiji parts.
Bear in mind that statements in a thread about a particular issue or aspect of training usually, and necessarily, contain very selective information and descriptions. The basic approach to training, all the rest of the stuff that happens in the body and mind when you do a certain 'move', has to be left out. Otherwise one has to write an essay, plus fotonotes and caveats, each time one posts anything. (Which can still be misunderstood, and will usually bore people anyway). This means that when one person says 'do this or that', readers may possibly assume that this person is doing something completely different to the 'true way' because the brief description is formulated in a different way to how they themselves would describe it. By the same token, a similar-sounding verbal description of a move may lead others to think it has the same essence as they have or aim for, while in fact the person does something quite different. Possibly...
That said, please enlighten as to where (in this thread) you think everyone is 'throwing out the taiji parts'. And indeed why no-one has any idea about what the goal is and/or why everyone is refusing to follow a more traditional approach?
Hmmm,
I don't think that the goals or uses for PH aren't understood. its just that they may be:
a) Misinterpreted
b) not be tailored to by the practice (so that say, if one wished to become good at evasive movement, but was stuck in resisting an oncoming push instead of practicing micro evasions).
c) not being catered to by a more creative approach to pushing hands to assist in achieving certain goals.
The reason I started this thread was an inquiry into how people practice their pushing hands and the purposes they are catering to. Of course PH will not give you the best and most efficient way of learning ground fighting, so what are we doing it for?
The answers I have gotten so far is Chin Na, rooting , use of Jin(s) , blocking movements and leg work. So far the concept of evasion, positioning, stepping, distance control, striking and throwing have not been fully explored.
For instance, when I focus on close quarters fighting while doing PH I take the classic's comment of not letting your opponent touch your chest with his ward off to heart and really try to avoid this happening.
If I am working on strong blocks and good internal connection I try to make each posture contain a solid and impenetrable feel so the frame is connected throughout, from posture to posture.
If working on entering for a push, lock or throw I try to work the simultaneous evade-neutralize-step in.
Just trying to get a more nuanced discussion going