Shaolin Series Going Up Now

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Re: Shaolin Series Going Up Now

Postby chenyaolong on Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:58 pm

Well thats a bit disappointing! next myth to bust would be the dips in the floor of the Thousand Buddha Hall. Unfortunately, I doubt the Shaolin Temple is ever gonna allow a team to come in and survey the ground or whatever to find the real cause.
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Re: Shaolin Series Going Up Now

Postby klonk on Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:16 pm

Perspective drawing was in use (though not universally) by the sixteenth century in Europe, was known there earlier, and I see is no reason to suppose Chinese artists were unaware of its value. Gunpowder is Chinese, and Europe was using it, in unwholesome quantities, long before that: not to celebrate the new year, but to blow each other to bits. What I mean is that there is no reason to suppose distance equals difference.

The saber is a Persian weapon, brought to Europe by the jihad of the month club, refined by (depending on whom you ask) by the Hungarians or the Poles into a well-practiced weapon.

Early in the last century, the Wong aircraft bureau investigated the practicality of motor driven airplanes. On visiting America, they concluded that two Wrights don't make a Wong. :D
Last edited by klonk on Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shaolin Series Going Up Now

Postby Bao on Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:22 am

klonk wrote:Perspective drawing was in use (though not universally) by the sixteenth century in Europe, was known there earlier, and I see is no reason to suppose Chinese artists were unaware of its value.


What Graham mentioned is not perspective drawing but one point perspective. It means that all lines that creates depth in the whole painting originates from one single point inside or outside the painting. I haven't reflected about the murals this way earlier, but one point perspective does not belong to the traditional painting styles. The way of arranging pictures comes from the format of the scroll, either vertical or horizontal. Creating and looking at paintings followed the way of "reading" the scroll which is different a Western style painting. The Chinese created stories within the paintings by dividing and separating different parts. They were meant to be looked at one part at a time. Thus there are perspective in paintings, but the perspective of different parts of the paintings don't match with the other parts. There is no central perspective for the whole painting. To suggest that Chinese traditional artists centuries ago would suddenly abandon their own traditions and rules of painting to make a western style type of arranging perspective is not a reasonable idea. In that case, there would be many other examples from the same time, as one could assume that this style must have been developed by practice amongst at least one group of artists. But there is no evidence of the one point perspective in earlier Chinese painting tradition. Even when the Jesuits brought science to China, they had an impact on Chinese cosmology and scientific thought as mathematics, but they seem to have had no greater impact on art.

This painting below illustrates the point above, it's from the tenth century. I took it from an article I found on the missing one point perspective in Chinese art. It's worth a look for anyone interested in Chinese art.
http://www.psy.ntu.edu.tw/vnl/paper/Chi ... 20Form.pdf

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The saber is a Persian weapon, brought to Europe by the jihad of the month club, refined by (depending on whom you ask) by the Hungarians or the Poles into a well-practiced weapon.


One Chinese historian I met believed that the Saber was the oldest crafted weapon of China and had a very old history. But I see no reason for this type of weapon to be developed in several different cultures. A most basic idea.
Last edited by Bao on Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Shaolin Series Going Up Now

Postby chenyaolong on Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:30 am

At least from visiting museums, I've never seen any very, very old Dao. The most common weapons in bronze age exhibits are Ge, Mao and Qian, and sometimes Jian.
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Re: Shaolin Series Going Up Now

Postby GrahamB on Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:02 am

These are some genuine Buddhist temple murals from the Yuan Dynasty:

https://albinger.me/2017/11/30/the-chin ... IezgWUnqtQ

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Re: Shaolin Series Going Up Now

Postby marvin8 on Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:34 pm

Excerpts from "A Wild Swan’s Trail, Part 3: The Shaolin Monastery:"
thebamboosea on May 31, 2012 wrote:
M. Shahar wrote:in 1828 prominent Manchu official named Lin Qing (1791-1846) visited the Shaolin Temple. By then, bare-handed techniques had completely eclipsed the monastery’s ancient staff methods, and instead of an armed display, the distinguished guest was entertained by a sparring demonstration:
Lin Qing wrote:. . . I proceeded to ask the monks about their hand combat method (quan fa), but they refused to utter a word about it. I made it clear that I had heard about the Shaolin Fist long ago, and I knew it had been relied upon solely for guarding monastic regulations and protecting the famous temple. Therefore they need not make pretence.

The abbot laughed and assented. He selected several sturdy monks to perform in front of the hall. Their “bear-hangings and bird stretchings” were indeed artful. After the performance the monks retreated. I sat facing Mt. Shaoshi’s three peaks, which resembled a sapphire tripod. Watching the shaded forests, misty mountains, and emerald green thickets, my body and spirit were equally at peace. I resolved to stay overnight.

Published in 1849, Lin Qing’s account of his visit was accompanied by a woodblock illustration of Shaolin monks practicing hand combat. The martial artists were shown under the gigantic shadow of their tutelary deity, Vajrapani (Kimnara), who still wielded his staff of old. The Manchu official, in ceremonial cap and robes and surrounded by his entourage, appeared in the picture as well. Apparently he was fascinated by the performance. Whereas the elderly abbot remained sitting under the hall’s eaves, Lin Qing rose from his seat to watch the martial artists up close.”

(M. Shahar, ‘The Shaolin Monastery: History, Religion, and the Chinese Martial Arts’, 2008, pp 126-128.)

According to Shahar, some scholars believe the renowned murals in Shaolin were painted to commemorate this visit:
M. Shahar wrote:Lin Qing’s woodblock illustration leads us to another, more elaborate, artwork, which depicts a similar scene: Shaolin’s White-Attired Mahâsattva Hall (Baiyi dashi dian) is decorated with an early nineteenth-century mural of fighting monks, who are demonstrating their bare-handed skills to visiting dignitaries, probably government officials. The guests, identified by their queues, are entertained by the abbot in a central pavilion, which is surrounded by the performing artists. The gorgeous fresco was executed with such attention to detail that some modern practitioners are able to identify in it the bare-handed postures they practice today. (ibid.)

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Fig. 28. Shaolin monks performing for visiting dignitaries; early nineteenth-century
Shaolin fresco.
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Re: Shaolin Series Going Up Now

Postby Bao on Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:38 am

marvin8 wrote:Image
Fig. 28. Shaolin monks performing for visiting dignitaries; early nineteenth-century
Shaolin fresco.
[/quote][/quote]

Taking more time looking at the whole picture again... this is not really one point perspective. Lol! (Close, but not close enough)

Early nineteenth-century might be correct...
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