Shooting of the Week

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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:10 am

windwalker wrote:How about these events.
Any cause for fear

Of course it's just over one weekend holiday not during the week. Maybe it's different

.CHICAGO — At least 34 people have been shot in gun violence over the Labor Day weekend.

Eight of those people died from their injuries.

Another 26 other people were wounded in shootings across the city.


As someone who lives in Chicago, I can say that it is not a cause for fear unless you live in very specific areas (and probably therefore belong to a very specific demographic which is why conservatives love to bring up Chicago all the time).

To me, bringing up inner-city violence that is contained within certain areas is a red herring. Or are you denying there seems to be an emergent or at least greatly increasing occurrence of a particular type of shootings that often seem to be perpetrated by a certain (young white disaffected male) using a certain kind of tool (assault-style weapon)?

Gun crime in Chicago is a real problem. Lax gun laws in Chicagoland and Indiana being a 15 min drive from the South Side mean that guns are easy to get and plentiful. Add to that poverty and the particular problems between policing and communities here and it's a mess. But, it's a different mess than school shootings and other mass shootings.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Steve James on Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:13 am

@windy: Stop with the defense mechanisms, already. Yes, people in parts of Chicago are terrorized by gangs and crime.

Does that make it better for ya? More people will be hit by cars than bullets this weekend. Lord only knows how many will be stabbed. There'll be more overdoses too.

So, what's the big deal about a mass shooting in Texas? Why does the media focus on that when so many more people will die in other ways, equally violent? Well, for one thing, we acknowledge that gang violence and crime are problems, and we try very hard to prevent them as much as possible. We make people wear seat belts. We provide emts with Narcan to help overdose victims. Some places have stricter gun laws and have far lower crime rates (per 100K) than cities with looser gun laws.

Iow, we address problems we identify. The reason you'll post about Chicago or Baltimore is to not talk about places where people have been murdered for ideological reasons, or the reasons for which they were murdered. I'd bet that most of the people shot in Chicago this weekend were the intended or unintended victims of crime.

If it had been an attack on a synagogue by a guy named Omar, it would be front page news. I doubt that either his motives or ideology would be doubted, especially if he left a message saying that he agreed with ISIS. Shucks, if he said that he had felt that way for a long time and ISIS had nothing to do with it, who would believe that/ --especially if he tells you. His ideology, whatever he called it, would be directly connected to his actions.

But, you responded to me after I said I didn't even know who did the shooting in Texas. It didn't matter. I said that people were scared there, but not because of crime. El Paso is a low crime city. A project on the south side of Chicago is not a synagogue, or a car accident. People see the difference or they refuse to.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Steve James on Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:29 am

But, it's a different mess than school shootings and other mass shootings.


Yep. Nobody asks about motives when it comes to robbery or rape.

Btw, there's also been an alarming rise in crimes against Jews in NY. Most have been simple assaults like pushes or knocking hats off, but there have been a few beatings. However, no shootings or attacks on synagogues. Though, there've been just as many church robberies.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby windwalker on Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:46 am

Steve James wrote:@windy: Stop with the defense mechanisms, already. Yes, people in parts of Chicago are terrorized by gangs and crime.

Does that make it better for ya?
More people will be hit by cars than bullets this weekend. Lord only knows how many will be stabbed.
There'll be more overdoses too.


Defensive mechanisms? hardly...
As to methods of death,,,the threads titled "shooting" tends to narrow it down...



A thread titled shooting of the week seems to only focus on some shootings and not others even when they occur
at the same time. Very consistent in this aspect...

For some people it's not shooting of the week, its shooting of the day.. an everyday thing.

Just trying to remind some that the "shootings" and numbers of affected or killed, are sadly
a fact of life for some people...hopefully at some point things will get better.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Steve James on Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:05 am

Just trying to remind some that the "shootings" and numbers of affected or killed, are sadly
a fact of life for some people...hopefully at some point things will get better.


Like I said, it's your conventional defense mechanism. I.e., "remind people" means you want them to talk about something else. Do you offer a resolution or solution? Nope. Though more police, more prisons, less poverty, or more jobs might work. How about addressing gun crime, in general?

Well, we could talk about all those things and still pay attention to mass murders committed by guys with ideologies. Like I said, guys who walk into Christian churches and kill Christians, into synagogues and kill Jews, and into Mosques to kill Muslims deserve at least as much as they wish for their victims. I don't think they're comparable to criminals, even serial killers who fall into the same group. Intentional baby killers are just that.

Anyway, ok, every time one of these guys goes on a spree, remind us of Chicago (or St Louis, Detroit, New Orleans, etc). Keep a running total. Synagogue, school, and mall shootings are relatively rare. Meanwhile, they seem to be becoming more frequent. Like you said, "hopefully at some point things will get better."
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Steve James on Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:08 am

Btw, afa this thread. When it started, it was just about mass shootings or trying to explain their frequency. It wasn't so much about the ideology of the shooters.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby windwalker on Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:16 am

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:
As someone who lives in Chicago, I can say that it is not a cause for fear unless you live in very specific areas (and probably therefore belong to a very specific demographic which is why conservatives love to bring up Chicago all the time).

Why live in fear at all

To me, bringing up inner-city violence that is contained within certain areas is a red herring. Or are you denying there seems to be an emergent or at least greatly increasing occurrence of a particular type of shootings that often seem to be perpetrated by a certain (young white disaffected male) using a certain kind of tool (assault-style weapon)? are not all shootings equal,,or are some more equal then others....does the color of the shooter matter?

Image

. By "assault-style weapon", I am assuming you mean "scary" looking...would it be better if it was just a normal looking rifle
does it even have to be a rifle?.


Gun crime in Chicago is a real problem. Lax gun laws in Chicagoland and Indiana being a 15 min drive from the South Side mean that guns are easy to get and plentiful. Add to that poverty and the particular problems between policing and communities here and it's a mess. But, it's a different mess than school shootings and other mass shootings.



Nutjobs tend to use what every they have.....In a free society , a very unique society
a lot of social conventions are lacking that normally would, could or might mitigate
some of the shootings.

When the shootings start getting reported as a male shooter aka "nut job" was shot grave yard dead at the crime scene
or taken into custody now serving life in solitary confinement, it might help future shooters aka "nut jobs" to understand
there is no upside...to what every they might consider doing..

Hopefully those around them might help them to seek help
or seek help for them.


As to guns being easy to get...

While living in Hsinchu, Taiwan, sometime last yr my bother in laws co-worker was shot killed, during a bank a robbery...
Guns are very hard to get in Taiwan from what I understand...the very rich or the very bad seem to have no problems
For most normal people its out of the question...

At least the guy shot himself dead after fleeing into a building with the police in pursuit
no where to run.

Or at least thats what was reported ;)
Last edited by windwalker on Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby windwalker on Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:32 am

Steve James wrote:Like I said, it's your conventional defense mechanism.
Like I said, you seem to like the narrative and so feel a need to post about it

I.e., "remind people" means you want them to talk about something else. Do you offer a resolution or solution? Nope. Though more police, more prisons, less poverty, or more jobs might work. How about addressing gun crime, in general?

Do you? have you?
as to gun crime,,,I tend to look at it as state laws and rights vs federal.
More laws on the books are not the answer. The larger story is about gun rights which some are asking to be managed at a federal level, doesn't seem like it will address the issue but does provide a back door path to nullifying the 2nd amendment.


Well, we could talk about all those things and still pay attention to mass murders committed by guys with ideologies. Like I said, guys who walk into Christian churches and kill Christians, into synagogues and kill Jews, and into Mosques to kill Muslims deserve at least as much as they wish for their victims. I don't think they're comparable to criminals, even serial killers who fall into the same group. Intentional baby killers are just that.

Anyway, ok, every time one of these guys goes on a spree, remind us of Chicago (or St Louis, Detroit, New Orleans, etc). Keep a running total. Synagogue, school, and mall shootings are relatively rare. cool you can do the same...so far in Chicago" 1,800 people have been shot this year. That is 212 fewer than 2018" looks like its getting better

Meanwhile, they seem to be becoming more frequent. Like you said, "hopefully at some point things will get better."



ya it does seem like they'e becoming more frequent...
lets not forget that

so far in Chicago" 1,800 people have been shot this year.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Steve James on Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:40 am

I remember when the msm focused almost exclusively on "urban" or "inner-city" crime --from murder to drugs. People in the inner cities generally bought their drugs from people who lived in the suburbs; though people from the suburbs came to the inner cities to buy drugs. But, if you watched the news, crime only existed in the inner-city. So, people (who didn't live in the inner-cities) were fine with programs like "stop and frisk" and were even open to "racial profiling." The same became true for Muslims or people with Arab (sounding) names. I mean, it made sense, no?

Whose bag should TSA search more thoroughly? Who looks suspicious walking down the street? What happens when someone else thinks you look like a terrorist? It is terrifying. It must be terrifying.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:40 pm

Windy,

Your idiosyncratic response style compounded with your writing style makes responding a bit time consuming and inconvenient (you conflate, change the subject, obfuscate, and make things up), but here's an honest effort:

Why live in fear at all?


I'm unclear if you are being sardonic? Rhetorical? If you live in an area where peope are getting shot all the time, it is natural to live in fear. I live in southside Chicago but aside from muggings and the like, not much to fear, and I'm not much of a mark, so I don't think about it much other than deploying habits learned through training and living in other rough cities.

are not all shootings equal,,or are some more equal then others....does the color of the shooter matter?


Well, it's obvious to me that a mass shooting of schoolchildren is worse than gang bangers or cops getting shot as they signed up for it and are rarely innocent. Does color matter? You are the one implying that with your constant invocation of Black on Black crime. I'd say color matters in the context of this thread as most of these mass shootings seem to be carried out by a new demographic--you didn't really address that point, though. Not unusual for you to dodge all salient points of contention, though. Try to keep up.

By "assault-style weapon", I am assuming you mean "scary" looking...would it be better if it was just a normal looking rifle
does it even have to be a rifle?


Why would you assume something so nonsensical? I mean what I said. Assult-style weapon is a term that appears in law and has been used by both the right and left (including the NRA). In fact, I was being generous by saying assault-style instead of assault weapon, which is the actual term (check the dictionary or read what has come out of the mouth of former heads of the NRA. Maybe you are mixing it up with assault rifle which is a fully auto or selective-fire rifle designed for the battlefield. I thought you might know that since you said you were in the service. How often do you even shoot long guns? You don't seem to know much about them.

Nutjobs tend to use what every they have.....In a free society , a very unique society
a lot of social conventions are lacking that normally would, could or might mitigate
some of the shootings.


Hmm, okay. But, the recent spate of mass shootings are certainly using assault weapons.

When the shootings start getting reported as a male shooter aka "nut job" was shot grave yard dead at the crime scene
or taken into custody now serving life in solitary confinement, it might help future shooters aka "nut jobs" to understand
there is no upside...to what every they might consider doing..


I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

Hopefully those around them might help them to seek help
or seek help for them.


Yes, it seems that red flag laws have been leading to a lot of arrests recently. I think there is an underlying problem, though. And I think it's a particular ideology and the tangential effects that it is having. Guns are obviously a huge factor, I'll explain what I mean after your weird Taiwan story.


As to guns being easy to get...

While living in Hsinchu, Taiwan, sometime last yr my bother in laws co-worker was shot killed, during a bank a robbery...
Guns are very hard to get in Taiwan from what I understand...the very rich or the very bad seem to have no problems
For most normal people its out of the question...


This is a fallacious statement. I don't know how strict gun laws are in Taiwan, but if they are strict as you claim, I imagine that gun deaths are very rare just as they are in all other countries with strict gun laws and enforcement.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby grzegorz on Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:48 pm

A 17 month old shot in the face with an AK?

Only in America.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Peacedog on Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:16 pm

I'm pretty sure that happens in lots of places...
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby windwalker on Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:58 pm

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:Windy,

Your idiosyncratic response style compounded with your writing style makes responding a bit time consuming and inconvenient (you conflate, change the subject, obfuscate, and make things up), but here's an honest effort:

people dead, you talk about writing style

I'm unclear if you are being sardonic? Rhetorical? If you live in an area where peope are getting shot all the time, it is natural to live in fear. I live in southside Chicago but aside from muggings and the like, not much to fear, and I'm not much of a mark, so I don't think about it much other than deploying habits learned through training and living in other rough cities.

got it, you dont live in the same area so it's not something you pay attention to or think about but like posting about when it fits into a certain narrative...otherwise its ok....
Well, it's obvious to me that a mass shooting of schoolchildren is worse than gang bangers or cops getting shot as they signed up for it and are rarely innocent. Does color matter? You are the one implying that with your constant invocation of Black on Black crime. I'd say color matters in the context of this thread as most of these mass shootings seem to be carried out by a new demographic--you didn't really address that point, though. Not unusual for you to dodge all salient points of contention, though. Try to keep up.

yep, not all shootings are equal unless one the people happen to be someones father, bother, or ect...black on black crime,,,were did that come from...Racist much? new demographic ? how about 1800 people were shot in an American city doesn't seem to make the news...
unless it fits into a certain narrative.




Why would you assume something so nonsensical? I mean what I said. Assult-style weapon is a term that appears in law and has been used by both the right and left (including the NRA). In fact, I was being generous by saying assault-style instead of assault weapon, which is the actual term (check the dictionary or read what has come out of the mouth of former heads of the NRA. Maybe you are mixing it up with assault rifle which is a fully auto or selective-fire rifle designed for the battlefield. I thought you might know that since you said you were in the service. How often do you even shoot long guns? You don't seem to know much about them.

you might try sticking to what you know about...We could compare to what you've shot vs what I have...my bet is you would lose..
assault style weapon has no meaning, you would know that or should know that if you've handled or know about weapons . Its a made up term used by the media and some in congress for people who don't know anything about weapons. that identifies scary looking weapons




Hmm, okay. But, the recent spate of mass shootings are certainly using assault weapons.

They are using rifles and hand guns,,,,dead is dead..to date unless I missed none of them have used assault weapons.

I can see how you might be confused because most of the laws are written describing features and not functions.

"An assault rifle is fully automatic, a machine gun. ... AR-15-style rifles can look like military rifles, such as the M-16, but by law they function like other semiautomatic civilian sporting firearms, as they fire only one round with each pull of the trigger."

key function
"automatic, commonly known as a machine gun"

Those who who've used the term assault weapon, have problems making laws
because other common rifles fall into having some of the same features with none of them having the capability of fully auto as one of them.


When the shootings start getting reported as a male shooter aka "nut job" was shot grave yard dead at the crime scene
or taken into custody now serving life in solitary confinement, it might help future shooters aka "nut jobs" to understand
there is no upside...to what every they might consider doing..


I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

As long as you and some of the others give these nut jobs a status, its what they want.
By denying them anything even a name, .
they might be less inclined to act out.
Being nut jobs different from terrorist ya never know..




Hopefully those around them might help them to seek help
or seek help for them.


Yes, it seems that red flag laws have been leading to a lot of arrests recently. I think there is an underlying problem, though. And I think it's a particular ideology and the tangential effects that it is having. Guns are obviously a huge factor, I'll explain what I mean after your weird Taiwan story.


As to guns being easy to get...

While living in Hsinchu, Taiwan, sometime last yr my bother in laws co-worker was shot killed, during a bank a robbery...
Guns are very hard to get in Taiwan from what I understand...the very rich or the very bad seem to have no problems
For most normal people its out of the question...


This is a fallacious statement. I don't know how strict gun laws are in Taiwan, but if they are strict as you claim, I imagine that gun deaths are very rare just as they are in all other countries with strict gun laws and enforcement.


Lets see in taiwan: " violent crimes such as assault and armed robbery 11.31 Very Low"

opps forgot no guns...

ok lets look at Switzerland they have guns

Switzerland: in 2017 was 0.3%, a rate of 300 per 100,000. In 2017, Switzerland's homicide rate was 2.9 per 100,000 (244 homicides),
a far cry from the 55.8 per 100,000 in Baltimore, America's most murderous city, according to USA Today.


"There are no official statistics, and estimates vary considerably. The 2017 report from Small Arms Survey has estimated that the number of civilian-held firearms in Switzerland is of 2.332 million, which given a population of 8.4 million corresponds to a gun ownership of around 27.6 guns per 100 residents.


Estimate of civilian firearms per 100 persons

United States 120.5
Switzerland 27.6
Taiwan 0.0





The red flag law mentioned has civil rights issues...

"Six states have enacted these laws. At their core, they allow the police to convene a Kafkaesque secret proceeding, in which an American can be stripped of his or her gun rights and Fourth Amendment rights, even though gun owners are barred from participating in the hearings or arguing their side of the dispute."

starts with guns, later it might be something else...ya never know....

The US does have problem in some of its cities, gun violence is one among many issues.

There are some who's real motive is to repel the 2nd amendment...
with out going through the legal frame work to address the issues.

If guns kill people
and illegal aliens kill people

why do some want to ban guns
and make sanctuary cites for the illegal aliens.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Steve James on Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:35 pm

but not send illegal aliens back to where every they've come from.


Citizens kill way more people than illegal aliens. Allegedly, we're deporting more of them than ever, and yet the mass shootings are increasing. More legal citizens with legal weapons have committed mass murders than Muslims. The question is what are "we" going to do about this specific problem.

People motivated by a particular ideology won't be deterred by gun laws. Neither will criminals. Terrorists will just use bombs or vehicles. Well, maybe supplying everyone with a weapon will deter those guys.
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Re: Shooting of the Week

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:58 pm

people dead, you talk about writing style


This is a message board. If you can't clearly communicate it's going to make things more difficult. Please try and stay focused and on point.

got it, you dont live in the same area so it's not something you pay attention to or think about but like posting about when it fits into a certain narrative...otherwise its ok....


Um, I live in Southside Chicago. My point was you are wrong to point Chicago as some sort of war zone where shootings happen all the time. It's not the wild west.

yep, not all shootings are equal unless one the people happen to be someones father, bother, or ect...black on black crime,,,were did that come from...


Yes, I believe in nuance. I would hope that if I live to 80 or 90 I would recognize that the life of a five-year-old would be more worth saving than my own.

Racist much? new demographic ? how about 1800 people were shot in an American city doesn't seem to make the news...
unless it fits into a certain narrative.


I love how openly racist people now try and call people calling out racism racists. This is the sort of cognitive dissonance at the heart of just about all of your posts.

you might try sticking to what you know about...We could compare to what you've shot vs what I have...my bet is you would lose..


Since you were in the military I would imagine you are right, although I've shot some pretty big guns and a rocket in Cambodia along with growing up shooting. As for what I know: I know I can read, and I did invite you to look in a dictionary.


assault style weapon has no meaning


See above. You are simply wrong.

They are using rifles and hand guns,,,,dead is dead..to date unless I missed none of them have used assault weapons.


Wrong again. See above.

Those who who've used the term assault weapon, have problems making laws
because other common rifles fall into having some of the same features with none of them having the capability of fully auto as one of them


This is correct, but I think you fail to realize that countries with strict gun laws ban semi-auto, magazine fed firearms. So, the problem in the US is the hair-splitting that the NRA does to protect assault rifles modified to be assault weapons. Don't belive me? Ask the makers of said weapons:

"Eugene Stoner would have agreed, his family said.

The ex-Marine and "avid sportsman, hunter and skeet shooter" never used his invention for sport. He also never kept it around the house for personal defense. In fact, he never even owned one.

And though he made millions from the design, his family said it was all from military sales.

"After many conversations with him, we feel his intent was that he designed it as a military rifle," his family said, explaining that Stoner was "focused on making the most efficient and superior rifle possible for the military.""

And from the inventor of the AK:

"So I designed one. I was a soldier, and I created a machine gun for a soldier. It was called an Avtomat Kalashnikova, the automatic weapon of Kalashnikov—AK—and it carried the year of its first manufacture, 1947."



.As long as you and some of the others give these nut jobs a status, its what they want.
By denying them anything even a name, .
they might be less inclined to act out.


Gee wiz, where have we heard of that before. Just don't talk about the problem and it will go away. Yeah, right.

Estimate of civilian firearms per 100 persons

United States 120.5
Switzerland 27.6
Taiwan 0.0


Do you understand basic math or statistics? You are making my point.
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