TrumpThrows Kurds Under the Bus After They Take on IS

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TrumpThrows Kurds Under the Bus After They Take on IS

Postby grzegorz on Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:45 am

Turkey invades Syria and Republicans realize they elected Fucko the Clown.

(CNN)Turkey has launched a planned military offensive into northeastern Syria, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan announced Wednesday, just days after the Trump administration announced it was pulling US troops back from the border area.

"Our aim is to destroy the terror corridor which is trying to be established on our southern border and to bring peace and peace to the region," Erdogan tweeted.

He added that Turkey "will preserve Syria's territorial integrity and liberate local communities from terrorists."

Shortly after Erdogan announced the offensive, the spokesman for the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) -- a key US ally in northern Syria -- claimed that warplanes had begun carrying out airstrikes on civilian areas. "There is huge panic among people in the region," spokesman Mustafa Bali wrote.

The offensive comes days after US President Donald Trump provoked a storm of criticism, including from his own party, by announcing the pullback of US military forces from the region. Trump's decision in effect gave Turkey a green light to attack US-backed Kurdish forces, though Trump threatened to punish Turkey economically if it does "anything outside of what we think is humane."

Ankara regards the Kurdish People's Protection Units, also known as the YPG, as a terrorist group affiliated with the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK), which has fought the Turkish state for more than three decades. But the US backs the YPG and credits the Kurds for helping defeat ISIS in Syria.

In a tweet early Wednesday, the Turkish government communications director, Fahrettin Altun, said the YPG had two options: "They can defect or we will have stop them from disrupting our counter-ISIS efforts."

Ahead of the offensive Wednesday, Syria condemned Turkey's "aggressive behavior" and "hostile intentions," according to Syrian state news agency SANA. "The aggressive behavior of the Erdogan regime clearly shows the Turkish expansionist ambitions in the territory of the Syrian Arab Republic and cannot be justified under any pretext," a source at the Foreign Ministry said, SANA reported.

A source at the Foreign Ministry said in a statement Wednesday that the Syrian government holds some Kurds responsible for what is happening "as a result of their dependence on the American project."

Calls to avoid a 'possible humanitarian catastrophe'

The Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) called on on the international community Tuesday to help avoid a possible humanitarian disaster.

In series of tweets from the verified Twitter account of the SDF, the General Command said the border areas of northeast Syria "are on the edge of a possible humanitarian catastrophe." It went on to call on the international community and those countries fighting against ISIS "to carry out their responsibilities" to avoid a "possible impending humanitarian disaster."

The SDF, which has vowed to defend itself against any perceived Turkish incursion, called on the US-led coalition and the international community to implement a no-fly zone over northern Syria similar to the one implemented in Iraq.

The Turkish Defense Ministry said Tuesday that the Turkish Armed Forces is "the only coalition and NATO army fighting the DAESH (ISIS) terrorist group in the Euphrates Shield Operation."

"Turkey is one of the countries most affected by DAESH's bloody activities and has fought against this terrorist organization both domestically and beyond its borders with increasing tempo and intensity," the ministry said in a tweet posted on its official twitter page.

The Euphrates Shield Operation, launched in July 2014 inside Syrian territory, was not only aimed at fighting ISIS but also the YPG.

On Wednesday, the SDF said ISIS "sleeper cells" attacked Kurdish positions in Raqqa, Syria, in the early hours, as tweeted by Mustafa Bali, head of the SDF press office.

Manbij Military Council spokesman, Shervan Derwish, also tweeted about the attack citing security sources saying, "more than 50 armed Daesh group in Raqqa are launching a coordinated attack to control Al Basel base in center of the city."

On Saturday, Erdogan announced that the country had "completed our preparations and action plan" and was ready to launch a "ground and air operation" east of the Euphrates river, with the goal of establishing "peace" by clearing the region of "terrorists."

Reinforcements deployed by the Turkish army could be seen arriving at the border town of Akcakale on Tuesday, according to the state-owned Anadolu news agency.

Turkey won't 'bow to threats'

The Kurds have long been considered as among Washington's most reliable partners in Syria and in the broader campaign against ISIS in the region.

US-backed Kurdish forces have been responsible for holding all captured ISIS fighters in the area. However, according to the White House, this responsibility will now fall to Turkey.

Trump has defended his decision to remove US troops from the area, saying he was "not siding with anybody" -- Kurdish forces or the Turkish government -- and reiterated an earlier warning to Turkey about potential economic devastation.

"I told Turkey if they do anything outside of what we think is humane ... they could suffer the wrath of an extremely decimated economy," the President said.

Turkish Vice President Fuat Oktay said his country won't "bow to threats" in an apparent response to Trump's warning.

"Turkey will teach a lesson to terror organizations that threatens our southern border and we will give an opportunity for Syrian refugees who are currently in Turkey," Oktay said. "Our message to international community is clear. Turkey is not a country that will bow to threats."
Last edited by grzegorz on Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:41 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: TrumpThrows Kurds Under the Bus After They Take on IS

Postby Steve James on Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:41 am

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Re: TrumpThrows Kurds Under the Bus After They Take on IS

Postby Bill on Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:14 pm

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Re: TrumpThrows Kurds Under the Bus After They Take on IS

Postby Steve James on Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:40 pm

Trump Says He'll Target Turkey's Economy If Kurds Are Wiped Out


That'll show 'em.
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Re: TrumpThrows Kurds Under the Bus After They Take on IS

Postby grzegorz on Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:48 pm

Bill wrote:Image


Reminds me of when Trump said he'd end IS in 30 days.

Yet sure enough he has just strengthen IS.

To me this isn't about the US being the World Police as much as Trump stabbing the Kurds and the US military in the back.

Trump is weak.
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Re: TrumpThrows Kurds Under the Bus After They Take on IS

Postby grzegorz on Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:52 pm

Also if the "world police" upsets you then you should have spoken out against Trump going after Iran, North Korea, Valenzuela, moving the embassy to Jerusalem, and sending troops to Saudi Arabia again.

More importantly the US wasn't doing a police action it was ending IS in Syria but Trump cut and ran probably to appease Putin. No wonder he tore up the translator"s notes.
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Re: TrumpThrows Kurds Under the Bus After They Take on IS

Postby grzegorz on Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:58 pm

Like W when all is said and done you won't find anyone who admitted voting for 45.
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Re: TrumpThrows Kurds Under the Bus After They Take on IS

Postby Steve James on Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:51 pm

Oh well, at least he didn't declare mission accomplished. Why were allying with the Kurds in the first place? To help them eliminate their enemy or ours?

I guess leaving them on their own must have been part of his great, wise plan. But, I think he could have told them. The poor South Vietnamese had more warning than this. If ISL resurges, are we going to ask for partners again?

I wonder if we'll take in any Kurdish immigrants.
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Re: TrumpThrows Kurds Under the Bus After They Take on IS

Postby windwalker on Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:09 pm

How long should the US stay?

In his later remarks, Trump asserted that American troops in Syria are not performing useful work. They are, he said, “not fighting.” They are “just there,” he said.


to echo some others statements why is the US there?

But Trump is saying these things to justify his Syria decision on Sunday. It’d be one thing if he were bringing all 1,000 US troops in the country home, but he’s not. Instead, he’s moving just 50 US service members out of northern Syria to get of the way of a just-started Turkish invasion.

In other words, Trump isn’t ending America’s involvement in Middle East wars, he’s just changing the military’s posture. That’s how the Pentagon presented the change Tuesday, too.


1000 soldiers,, amounts to little over 1 battalion


In Korea there's some / or was 30k troops stationed there...
We were told we were the trip wire...

Why are we still there?

Okay, but maybe the US isn’t ending the war in Syria, but surely Trump’s stopping American involvement elsewhere, right? Nope.

A late September report from US Air Forces Central Command showed that the US launched the most airstrikes in Afghanistan over a single month in roughly a decade. American troops have ramped up airstrikes in Libya targeting ISIS fighters there. And the US continues its shadow war in Somalia to fend off terrorist groups there.

This is fits into a grander narrative of the Trump presidency: While he says he wants out of wars, he continues to fight them and in many cases escalates the conflicts. He may talk a big game when it comes to Middle East conflicts, but actions, as they say, speak louder than words.

https://www.vox.com/world/2019/10/9/209 ... east-tweet
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Re: TrumpThrows Kurds Under the Bus After They Take on IS

Postby grzegorz on Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:40 pm

How long should we stay?

Perhaps once there is peace, IS is ended and the prsions are secure or at least a cease fire between Turkey and the Syrians?

Or perhaps consult with the actual military?

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Re: TrumpThrows Kurds Under the Bus After They Take on IS

Postby Michael on Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:56 pm

Hey Greg, good thread, it's an important topic. Here's some relevant info. with boomer caps lock on :D. Chronological top to bottom from earlier today.

Image

Image

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Re: TrumpThrows Kurds Under the Bus After They Take on IS

Postby grzegorz on Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:01 pm

Yes, he wants it both ways but I call BS as I mentioned.

grzegorz wrote:Also if the "world police" upsets you then you should have spoken out against Trump going after Iran, North Korea, Valenzuela, moving the embassy to Jerusalem, and sending troops to Saudi Arabia again.


He is not the bringer of peace.

I am not surprised he brings up money though because everything is a transaction to him and nothing more.
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Re: TrumpThrows Kurds Under the Bus After They Take on IS

Postby windwalker on Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:17 pm

Of the 29 member countries, two are located in North America (Canada and the United States), 26 are in Europe, and one is in Eurasia (Turkey). ... Three of NATO's members are nuclear weapons states: France, the United Kingdom, and the United States.


Turkey is a member country in nato,,,,..As a member of nato its acting presumably in its own interest congruent
with its status as a member...Does an "ally" merit more support then a nato member?

Why are not the other european nato members supporting or engaged in this....

what should the US do..

If congress feels its something the US should be involved in, why not vote on it
Last edited by windwalker on Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: TrumpThrows Kurds Under the Bus After They Take on IS

Postby Steve James on Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:52 pm

Aw, he knew the history of the middle east before he sent troops there. It's not an excuse now. Okay, it might be one of those things that even a stable genius can't solve in a couple of years, but it wouldn't take a genius to figure that out. A true genius might be able to figure it out.
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Re: TrumpThrows Kurds Under the Bus After They Take on IS

Postby Peacedog on Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:15 pm

What is being left out of this discussion is that over 2000 US personnel are currently stationed in Turkey.

If the US tries to fight the Turks, what happens to them?

Erdogan has the US in a no win situation and he knows it.

If the US tries to fight him our personnel in Turkey get slaughtered. If the US abandons the Kurds we look like fools.

Not to mention all of the supply lines in Syria for our forces go through Turkey.

Erdogan has a hardon for killing Kurds for any number of reasons. The fact that his, ill advised, action is probably going to turn loose 10k ISIS fighters and result in his military taking it in the face fighting both them and the Kurds at the same time is irrelevant.

Should the US have left Turkey years ago? Maybe, but that would have made virtually any action in Syria impossible.

It is a shitty situation in a shitty part of the world. We put up with it to contain ISIS, which was successful. The problem is that guys like Erdogan are the reason why this part of the world sucks and will keep sucking. Congratulations the world makes sense again.

As has already been pointed out, the President relocated about 50-100 personnel to prevent all out warfare with the Turks. The Kurds are the losers in this round. That sucks. They've been good allies. But short of pulling all US forces out of Turkey on short notice and launching attacks against the Turkish military there is little he can do.

The world is an imperfect place. And when bad guys like Erdogan are dead set on being a-holes it makes for hard decisions with bad side effects.

Does anyone here want to sacrifice 2k plus American troops in Turkey to go to war with the Turks? If so, I'd like to hear your plans for how that will fall out.

It reminds me off all of the bitching and whining about Rwanda. Up to 800k Tutsis were killed by Hutus. That sucks. What force could anyone, let alone the US, have put into place to stop this? On short notice no less. The whole damn thing took 90 days. Great, I'll answer that question: no one. It would have taken an occupation force of at least 50K and involved shooting up a bunch of civilian mobs killing one another with machetes. Imagine the video on that.

Turkey is a NATO member no less. What would the optics be of the US kinetically engaging the Turks?

Erdogan is a dictator and mullah wanna be. He could care less about his own economy. He's already fired, or jailed, all of the competent members of his own military. What soft power actions would contain him on this? Again, I'll answer that question for the class: none. Which is why the limp wristed Europeans have had nothing to say about this either.

No good out for this president, or any other for that matter, exists on this issue. And it was probably unavoidable given Erdogan's mentally unstable approach to things.
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