Li Xiaohui chen style

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Li Xiaohui chen style

Postby windwalker on Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:59 pm


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9bjUEUyj3I

A few guys from Lin Yi came to the mountain on June 10th to challenge the taiji students. Li Xiaohui took the challenge.
Very little information was given by the challengers. Only one name was given. No background information. They fought and left.


example of training reflected in usage
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Re: Li Xiaohui chen style

Postby Bhassler on Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:20 pm

Agreed that they answered the "challenge" with what they trained, but it should hardly be called a fight. More likely they should have called it "training with people we didn't know who probably wanted to 'win' at the training exercise."
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Re: Li Xiaohui chen style

Postby windwalker on Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:22 pm


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs_kdGe ... e=youtu.be


would not be dismissive of skill sets developed usefulness.

No it was not a fight because it was not "fighting" in the same light as sword duels of the past or
of pistol duels out west one can still get hurt or have things broken.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c5gkBI ... e=youtu.be

A challenge (person in red) to Daqingshan in May 2014. This person is from Xi An in North west China. He claimed that he had challenged many masters in China and had never lost. He came to the mountain telling the instructors that they were not doing Taiji right. He first fight was with Han Rui. He stopped, claiming that he did not want to bother fighting Han because Han had low level skill. Then he demonstrated how taiji should be done. After that he challenged Chen Xu. Every time he fell, he said Chen Xu was wrong. In the end, he left believing that he had won and the Daqingshan instructors were beaten by him
http://practicalmethod.com/2015/02/about-challenges/

Its very important that what ever is done is in accordance to what is trained.
So far this type of training has not been adopted to the more modern competitive venues
of today. Many reasons for why this has not happened "yet"
Last edited by windwalker on Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Li Xiaohui chen style

Postby nicklinjm on Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:45 pm

Not going to argue about semantics but this was certainly a challenge, have seen this so many times in China where on the surface they come to 'learn' / 'exchange' but actually they are looking to take down the local teacher. Whatever you think about about Practical Method you have to say Li Xiaohui did v well here, stuck to the method he has trained and used it successfully against the challengers who were putting a lot of force into their (admittedly very basic) wrestling-type maneuvers.
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Re: Li Xiaohui chen style

Postby windwalker on Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:02 pm

this was certainly a challenge, have seen this so many times in China where on the surface they come to 'learn' / 'exchange' but actually they are looking to take down the local teacher.


Exactly. Regardless of style / method / part of the challenge is demonstrating the method in use.
Otherwise even if one "wins" they lose....If the method used is suddenly different then what was demoed or presented.
Last edited by windwalker on Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Li Xiaohui chen style

Postby Bhassler on Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:58 pm

The second clip was much better, in that it showed a smaller guy handling a bigger one who was clearly being a dick-- and the little guy handled the big guy without bashing his head open, which nowadays is generally a good thing. So it at least showed something. The first clip was just kind of a tepid low key push-hands match with some ego on the line. My objection is to calling these "fights", considering it's a very limited rule set bound by politeness and the artifices of the exercise. Did you see anything here that you think would carry the day in a sport fight, like MMA? Did you see anything that made you think "gosh, if my 15 year old daughter could do that, I wouldn't worry so much about her getting assaulted!"

I didn't. I think the drills and the skills have their place, but insisting on calling this sort of thing fighting or holding it up as proof of the validity of taijiquan as a martial art perpetuates the idea that CMA is bullshit among real fighters, while at the same time setting a low bar for the fakes and frauds that permeate the arts. YMMV, etc. etc.
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Re: Li Xiaohui chen style

Postby Bao on Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:24 am

I think the drills and the skills have their place, but insisting on calling this sort of thing fighting or holding it up as proof of the validity of taijiquan as a martial art perpetuates the idea that CMA is bullshit among real fighters,


Sort of agree. But the problem as always is how you measure fighting and what standard there should be before we can speak about fighting skills. To validate the fighting capacity of a style is always wrong. Not everyone who takes up MMA practice knows how to fight or will automatically become good at fighting. Not everyone who start to practice boxing will find it suitable for them. The art itself doesn't decide if you can fight or if you can learn to fight.

But most of martial arts practice limited skils in limited ways. Look at Thai Boxing neck wrestling. If you are good at it, does it mean that you can win a UFC fight? Of course not. Always when people try to measure fighting skills through limited skill sets this says a whole lot about their own lack of understanding and their own limitations. This goes in both ways, TCC nay sayers and those who want to prove TCC fighting capacity through PH skills.
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Re: Li Xiaohui chen style

Postby windwalker on Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:14 am

Interesting in that a post reflecting trained skill sets used within a given context, is questioned about the context itself.

Somehow suggesting it's something that it never purported to be "fighting"

Some go on to suggest "fighting" is define by what happens in combative contest.

IMO missing the point of the post.
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Re: Li Xiaohui chen style

Postby windwalker on Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:22 am

. Always when people try to measure fighting skills through limited skill sets this says a whole lot about their own lack of understanding and their own limitations


Or it can say a lot about those viewing not understanding what they're viewing.

No one questions sumo or sumo wrestlers. For the most part we don't see sumo wrestlers in other combative contest. They don't train for them. This is not to say their skill sets cannot be used in different ways, only that they train for the context they expect to function in.

No one questions boxers, or their limitations.

For those who do practice taiji and understand what they're looking at they might question the degree or types of skill sets displayed in the clips as to whether it reflects
Taiji skill sets or not.

I tend to look past this aspect and just focus on if the training matches usage. In this case what is trained is used.

The question of whether it can be used combatively or in self defense illustrated in this clip


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs_kdGe ... e=youtu.be


whether its a viable alternative in other venues can only be answered by those
who practice the method.
Last edited by windwalker on Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:04 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Li Xiaohui chen style

Postby Strange on Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:28 pm

I think it is very skillful
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Re: Li Xiaohui chen style

Postby Bao on Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:53 am

windwalker wrote:
. Always when people try to measure fighting skills through limited skill sets this says a whole lot about their own lack of understanding and their own limitations


Or it can say a lot about those viewing not understanding what they're viewing.

No one questions sumo or sumo wrestlers. For the most part we don't see sumo wrestlers in other combative contest. They don't train for them. This is not to say their skill sets cannot be used in different ways, only that they train for the context they expect to function in.

No one questions boxers, or their limitations.


That is very true. 8-)

And that is very much what I meant. People don't try to picture a Sumo wrestler in a MMA context. But as soon people see a Tai chi practitioner doing push hands they question his fighting skills and want to put him in the UFC.
...well, I guess People tend to have different ideas about Tai Chi...
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Re: Li Xiaohui chen style

Postby dspyrido on Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:01 pm

Bao wrote:
windwalker wrote:
. Always when people try to measure fighting skills through limited skill sets this says a whole lot about their own lack of understanding and their own limitations


Or it can say a lot about those viewing not understanding what they're viewing.

No one questions sumo or sumo wrestlers. For the most part we don't see sumo wrestlers in other combative contest. They don't train for them. This is not to say their skill sets cannot be used in different ways, only that they train for the context they expect to function in.

No one questions boxers, or their limitations.


That is very true. 8-)

And that is very much what I meant. People don't try to picture a Sumo wrestler in a MMA context. But as soon people see a Tai chi practitioner doing push hands they question his fighting skills and want to put him in the UFC.
...well, I guess People tend to have different ideas about Tai Chi...


That's because neither boxing or sumo claim to be the Grand ultimate or have an air of superiority due to the obscure concept of being internal somehow makes it better than others.

Both sumo and boxing claim to be a sport and not a ultimate fighting system. The irony is that boxing's utility in MMA has been proven by many. TC makes extraordinary claims but with little proof yet lots and lots of claims, stories, fabricated videos and opinions. Of course this will attract negative attention.

Now onto this video - it's a TC rules challenge of which he holds his own under the TC rule set.

The problem is the comment - they fought and left. Let's just say "they competed under TC rules and left".

I will though say there are several points where he does some moves that if the rules where more open then some of his moves would go badly for him against a good wrestler or striker. In this case he would need to modify what he does to be still left standing.
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Re: Li Xiaohui chen style

Postby wayne hansen on Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:31 pm

The name Grand Ultimate is not a claim of superiority but statement of a principle
It is an aim to achieve
Now yangs title of invincible is
It must of had some validation to get him appointed to a position of instructor to the Royal guard
We know he must have faced some wrestlers amongst his Mongol students
Wu was one
Our school in Malaysia faced challenges from all quarters and was not found wanting ,this is a fact of history
I have seen publications from the 50 and 60's that give great detail
Just because people don't wish to compete doesn't mean they can't
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Re: Li Xiaohui chen style

Postby Bao on Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:10 pm

That's because neither boxing or sumo claim to be the Grand ultimate or have an air of superiority due to the obscure concept of being internal somehow makes it better than others.


It doesn’t and it hasn’t. Bad translation and bad understanding of old and cultural dependent concepts. But you are correct that pompous claims might have a lot to do with the problem. :-\
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Re: Li Xiaohui chen style

Postby GrahamB on Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:09 am

At some point you will realise that the subway train clip is faked and your whole world will come crumbling down - lol.
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