Another interesting Su Dongchen Clip

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Re: Another interesting Su Dongchen Clip

Postby wayne hansen on Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:02 am

Can you show me a clip of what you mean
As it was my first art I might be able to shed some light
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Re: Another interesting Su Dongchen Clip

Postby wayne hansen on Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:10 am

Some interesting and some strange stuff on this one

https://youtu.be/6Kp1Wn9AVYg
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Re: Another interesting Su Dongchen Clip

Postby dspyrido on Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:26 pm

wayne hansen wrote:Can you show me a clip of what you mean
As it was my first art I might be able to shed some light


This?



How much of what you (or others here) did is what Su did? Agreed the video you posted has some funky moves. Where they standard or Su's creation?

From the comments & the videos he seemed more about using trapping and controls vs. powering through so curious about the differences. Was it just back to his personal preference or was there are different reason?

Oh and the music. 8-)
Last edited by dspyrido on Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Another interesting Su Dongchen Clip

Postby wayne hansen on Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:04 am

What most people consider to be metal I see as wood
A hard straight palm forward
The secret of Pi is the tsuan on the way up
This is the block the capture and the execution
I think Su has developed his own way of moving as has Lou
I don't see it influenced by white crane or any other art
It is just the internal journey over time developing a unique skill set
Hong was not only taught by his father but also his uncle
His uncle was a much smaller man and deeply into ba kua so his style differed
When I saw Hong doing the Chen Pan Ling tai chi he was the first man to impress me with that form
Each fist in Hsing I should divert and penetrate at the same time
It is something I see missing in a lot of practitioners
Even Hongs basic forms like ba by da are so well thought out and balanced I would be glad to do nothing else.
Hope that is a help
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Re: Another interesting Su Dongchen Clip

Postby AJG on Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:51 pm

Hi Wayne

Re my earlier question on the Pi Chuan form I was referring to the start of the form where their hands drop down to the dantian and then twist strongly to the side before doing the upward movement. It looks exaggerated so I'm assuming there is a point to it. I've only seen it in the Hong lineage that I'm aware of.

Regarding your other point on how most people do Pi Chuan I would agree what we generally see is a straight palm forward. Most people end up doing this because they haven't developed how to deliver power in the required direction so they end up delivering a straight palm with a bit of a curve at the end and say that's metal. Unfortunately in these cases there is no power in it.

You are spot on with the upward movement in Pi Chuan as being the block, capture and execution.
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Re: Another interesting Su Dongchen Clip

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:04 am

The what I learnt it
The two hands raise to the apex tracing a large circle
As they descend they move first to the right
Back through the centre to the left
Then draw along the bottom of the circle to the right
They then shoot in a arc forward and up unfolding into Pi
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Re: Another interesting Su Dongchen Clip

Postby dspyrido on Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:52 pm

Thanks Wayne the background clarifies things. Makes sense how XY even under the same lineage is interpreted individually.

I have views on 5 elements that are probably not canon but for me they work. Things like each form has a grip, deflection and strikes built in. Each has an direct chin na move built in. Each also represents a directional line of force ie metal is rising and falling and not straight -> piercing front and back is wood. Then mixing the elements generates many many moves.

Be good to see any videos of Chen Pan Ling tai chi
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Re: Another interesting Su Dongchen Clip

Postby greytowhite on Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:39 pm

wayne hansen wrote:What most people consider to be metal I see as wood
A hard straight palm forward
The secret of Pi is the tsuan on the way up
This is the block the capture and the execution


Indeed, this is why Gong style xingyi looks funky. Our sancai and piquan stances and fists are separate practices and the sancai is definitely a wood flavor - we are drawing the bow and linking the ribs, shoulders, and hips with the rear hand. The sancai is the true foundation where the hunyuan happens. The 5 elements are really just to help clear the interference between the shoulders and the rest of the torso so one can stay relaxed while exerting force.
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Re: Another interesting Su Dongchen Clip

Postby shawnsegler on Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:25 pm

This thread. :(

S
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You behind the wheel
And me the passenger
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