Street vs Sport

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Street vs Sport

Postby johnwang on Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:25 am

- Fighting is not fighting. Not fighting is fighting.
- Resistance is not resistance. Not resistance is resistance.
- Street is sport. Sport is street.
- Good is evil. Evil is good.
- ...

The day that nobody can understand what you are trying to say, the day that you become a holy man.
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Re: Street vs Sport

Postby Trick on Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:27 am

That’s quite some Orwellian stuff your onto there
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Re: Street vs Sport

Postby johnwang on Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:27 pm

Trick wrote:That’s quite some Orwellian stuff your onto there

A monk spent all his time with a rich person and ignore a poor scholar. The scholar said, "I assume rich or poor should not be concerned by Buddhism." The monk said, "Concern is not concern. Not concern is concern." The scholar slaps on the monk's face and said, "Slap is not slap. Not slap is slap."

Trick wrote:The higher purpose of engaging with resistance is to understand nonresistance.
The high understanding of nonresistance is non fighting.

The higher purpose of engaging with nonresistance is to understand resistance.
The high understanding of resistance is fighting.

If good is bad and bad is good, we will confuse ourselves big time.
Last edited by johnwang on Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Street vs Sport

Postby taichibum on Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:58 pm

One difference in how you train is are you practicing to go against someone who is also highly skilled and knowledgeable or against someone who does not know anything? In sport you assume that your opponent is working just as hard as you are, his technique is just as good, is as strong or stronger and wants to beat you as much as you want to beat him. If you train with this in mind then regardless of if you are training for sport or for street the odds of being surprised will be lower.
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Re: Street vs Sport

Postby windwalker on Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:14 pm

addresses some of the points raised here

First, why can't you use simple movements in attack?

Image

  "Good-looking punches often cannot hit, punches that hit are not good-looking." Many martial arts enthusiasts have such a consensus.

  As for why good-looking punches can't be used, and why good punching does not have to look good.
Guys are often confused and can't figure out whether they didn't practice their kung fu or the teacher taught it wrong.


https://www.toutiao.com/i6789018929432887811/

Second, the strong stress stimulus that cannot adapt to the attack is not a true traditional boxing method

  Let's use the above stress theory to talk about the problem of distinguishing true and false traditional boxing.

  A few years ago, I said in Fighting: Whether the boxing action is reasonable and effective can be tested by boxing and used in fighting.



Note: quotations edited for clarity.
if incorrect hope native speakers can post more correct meaning.

talks about stress testing, being able to distinguish true and false traditional boxing....

Stress testing.

A good way of looking at the differences in training for the known "sportive events"
and unknown " street encounters"
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Street vs Sport

Postby Trick on Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:18 am

johnwang wrote:A monk spent all his time with a rich person and ignore a poor scholar. The scholar said, "I assume rich or poor should not be concerned by Buddhism." The monk said, "Concern is not concern. Not concern is concern." The scholar slaps on the monk's face and said, "Slap is not slap. Not slap is slap."

[
If good is bad and bad is good, we will confuse ourselves big time.
That’s not a true story....or ist !? :)
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Re: Street vs Sport

Postby johnwang on Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:52 pm

Trick wrote:
johnwang wrote:A monk spent all his time with a rich person and ignore a poor scholar. The scholar said, "I assume rich or poor should not be concerned by Buddhism." The monk said, "Concern is not concern. Not concern is concern." The scholar slaps on the monk's face and said, "Slap is not slap. Not slap is slap."

If good is bad and bad is good, we will confuse ourselves big time.
That’s not a true story....or ist !? :)

When people said, "Fighting is no fighting, and no fighting is fighting." The world can be turned upside down.

IMO, fighting is as simple as "Kill the evil and protect the good".
Last edited by johnwang on Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Street vs Sport

Postby wayne hansen on Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:27 pm

The more you practice a good looking punch the easier it is to deliver an ugly one when needed
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Street vs Sport

Postby windwalker on Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:45 pm

wayne hansen wrote:The more you practice a good looking punch the easier it is to deliver an ugly one when needed


If one takes time to read or have someone translate it.
Took it to mean that "good looking" punches are whats reflected stylistically in the practice
The question asking why "ugly" looking punches the ones not reflecting what is being taught
tend to be more used or effective.


Followed by why is this so?

Rhetorically asking about how to tell "real" training from fake, suggesting some
ways to test for this.
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Street vs Sport

Postby Trick on Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:14 am

johnwang wrote: The world can be turned upside down.

fighting is as simple as "Kill the evil and protect the good".

Yes it’s troublesome isn’t it because kill actually seem to attract kill. Therefore non fighting should be the preferred, and that is what one hopefully can come to understand from martial arts practice
When one talk and walk about ‘opponents’ and the importance to dabble with resistance, well then one might become good at ‘killing’.....pax vobiscum 8-)
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Re: Street vs Sport

Postby Trick on Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:17 am

wayne hansen wrote:The more you practice a good looking punch the easier it is to deliver an ugly one when needed

The finest looking punch is the one you couldn’t see 8-)
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Re: Street vs Sport

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:30 am

windwalker wrote:
wayne hansen wrote:The more you practice a good looking punch the easier it is to deliver an ugly one when needed


If one takes time to read or have someone translate it.
Took it to mean that "good looking" punches are whats reflected stylistically in the practice
The question asking why "ugly" looking punches the ones not reflecting what is being taught
tend to be more used or effective.


Followed by why is this so?

Rhetorically asking about how to tell "real" training from fake, suggesting some
ways to test for this.



Only if you don't understand what a good looking punch is
If you think a pretty punch is a good looking punch
To me a good looking punch is one with refined body mechanics
If this is not true why train at all
Why does a boxer punch a bag a million times
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Street vs Sport

Postby windwalker on Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:50 am

wayne hansen wrote:Only if you don't understand what a good looking punch is
If you think a pretty punch is a good looking punch
To me a good looking punch is one with refined body mechanics
If this is not true why train at all
Why does a boxer punch a bag a million times


maybe my explanation was not too good.
The reference to good looking was not to mean functional usage.

It was in reference to training based stylistic assumptions that don’t work for the most part outside of a training environment,
having been developed and used in a time long ago....

The whole article questioned traditional method based training and how much of it doesn’t look as practiced when put to use.

CMA in general is very unique in that much of what is practiced,
is rarely demonstrated in freestyle usage. Historically this was not the case as what was looked for was the usage that made the style unique.
Last edited by windwalker on Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Street vs Sport

Postby wiesiek on Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:38 pm

i would like to mention, that fighting under rule(s) set is as old,as the Art itself ,
we like to collect experiences without killing or be killed in the process, as the old swallow can say.
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Re: Street vs Sport

Postby johnwang on Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:06 pm

windwalker wrote:CMA in general is very unique in that much of what is practiced, is rarely demonstrated in freestyle usage.

In SC, the solo training is the partner training without partner. What I don't understand is why the other CMA systems don't follow this guide line.

Image
Image
Last edited by johnwang on Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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