Peacedog wrote:So far most of the discussions have centered on rotating the dan tien up/down the vertical axis.
In several meditative traditions I'm familiar with, a horizontal rotation of the dan tien is used extensively.
Has anyone here used horizontal rotations martially?
Trick wrote:vertical, horizontal, diagonal, round and round spinning your imaginary inner belly button. some serious introspective navel gazing going on
Formosa Neijia wrote:Peacedog wrote:So far most of the discussions have centered on rotating the dan tien up/down the vertical axis.
In several meditative traditions I'm familiar with, a horizontal rotation of the dan tien is used extensively.
Has anyone here used horizontal rotations martially?
One of the things I'm promoting in my above posts earlier in the thread isn't to rotate the dantian around a vertical or horizontal axis-- it's to move it forward and back. The horizontal (forward/back but not rotational) movment of the danitan is much more important than up/down or side-side for martial purposes.
Making a circular rotation vertically or horizontally is too slow for many combat applications.
i also think using the word rotation causes confusion.
Formosa Neijia wrote:Making a circular rotation vertically or horizontally is too slow for many combat applications.
i also think using the word rotation causes confusion.
johnwang wrote:Formosa Neijia wrote:Making a circular rotation vertically or horizontally is too slow for many combat applications.
i also think using the word rotation causes confusion.
The horizontally rotation makes perfect sense when you apply the "切 (Qie) - front cut".
Trick wrote:vertical, horizontal, diagonal, round and round spinning your imaginary inner belly button. some serious introspective navel gazing going on
everything wrote:... change the structure, outer shape, inner energy stuff in a tangible way. So if we are talking about something sort of "beyond" that, I'm curious in case anyone is willing to elaborate. If we're talking only about outer movement, not really as curious lol... unless maybe you could give an example with, say, basketball shots or golf shots or something "simple". No worries if not...
D_Glenn wrote:In the Yin style Bagua I do, the Lion System has purely horizontal power. It takes a lot of dedicated practice but it’s using the transverse abdominal muscles, which can become really powerful and the amount of growth they can develop is essentially unlimited (Dantian just gets bigger and more solid). And the ability to contract gets faster. You have to develop the same skill used in Nauli Kriya because if you can completely relax one side, then the other half can contract more powerfully and quickly. Jinbao can even sync up the arms to the contraction, but sort of parsing out the degrees, so he can hit you with a turning of only say 10 degress, with more power than you can get out of a full length of contraction and 170 degrees of motion and momentum. It’s crazy. Most Chinese arts don’t ever delve this deeply into the horizontal power. It has to be felt first hand in order to understand the potential.
johnwang wrote:The horizontally rotation makes perfect sense when you apply the "切 (Qie) - front cut".
C.J.W. wrote:I suppose there's some confusion at play here due to translation. The original term for dantian rotation in Chinese is 轉丹田, with 轉 often translated as "to rotate" or "rotation." However, 轉 can also simply mean to "turn" with the connotation of "adjusting and changing angles." The meaning that better describes dantian movement in combat, IMO, is the latter.
everything wrote:dantian can be translated as "cinnabar field". here's a fairly random (to me) article about dantians in general coming from Taoist "neidan" practices starting from about 165 CE. https://www.goldenelixir.com/jindan/dantian.html - these dantians are energy centers "devoid of material counterparts". "field" seems like an apt translation, not just literally.
what's probably a massive source of confusion is that the body's center of gravity is often around where the lower dantian is located (but not always as in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSW8gXm ... e=youtu.be). and that MAists and all athletes need a kinesthetic understanding of this CoG. almost all sports use a turning of the body around this area. many people say baseball is the most difficult sport. I'd say golf is the most difficult for normal people. Turning of this area is critical, but that doesn't need to have anything to do with the cinnabar fields and internal energy work, neidan and neigong and neijing. It would be really interesting if the teachers were talking about all of the above, but it certainly doesn't sound like it at all.
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