Unusual vs Highly Refined

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Unusual vs Highly Refined

Postby everything on Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:57 pm

I think it would help to use terms like

“Unusual”

And

“Highly Refined”.

Most of us speak most of the time about Highly Refined.

That could apply to someone like Jordan or Ali or Woods.

The premise that one can use “internal” or “external” to get there is wrong because the end goal isn’t exactly the same.

There are, apparently (from descriptions), very few people who have encountered either one, but very very few who have encountered anything unusual.

It would be great to talk about those, but it’s usually what we would call fake.
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Re: Unusual vs Highly Refined

Postby everything on Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:07 pm

From previous questions,

Nobody here claimed to be a former truly elite athlete (Olympic medalist etc).

However perhaps you have “touched hands” with some.

In that case most likely you detected insanely high refinement.

Of course that is very unusual.

However we can clearly see that a Messi or a Curry has taken the ordinary (things any of us can do) and done it to an unbelievable degree.

Tiger Woods missed three 3 foot putts out of something like 1500.

We can ALL sink three foot putts. But not like that.
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Re: Unusual vs Highly Refined

Postby everything on Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:13 pm

But there is unusual and then there is unusual.

If you have encountered something strange, it is hard to explain.

It’s stranger still to say:
1. It’s basics done well.
That would lead toward a Messi but nothing really strange.

2. It’s some biomechanics that the Highly Refined missed. That of course makes no sense.
Did Tiger really miss some secret???

It almost seems logical if we equate Unusual with Highly Refined.

Because then we could say there are only two ways:
1. Do the basics unusually well. Like Tiger.
2. Do something really unusual. A different solution.

But the special biomechanics thing makes no sense.

The best athletes would catch that more easily.
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Re: Unusual vs Highly Refined

Postby everything on Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:28 pm

It seems more likely it’s from doing something else.

I don’t mean something like sticking out a leg or having a better center. It’s bizarre to think anyone has a better center “rotation” than Tiger. I mean, do you live outside this bubble? Have you ever tried golf?

Here is where it gets difficult:
- people haven’t encountered anything strange.
- if they have, they only are willing to entertain the idea of taking normal stuff to the nth degree.

I think it’s ok. It’s best if you know you are in those schools of thought, though.

Then when you say, add a leg or add a rotation, you can be clear that you are building a Tiger Woods and you do not wish to speak about these “tales”.

If you are interested in these “tales”, you should think outside the box.
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Re: Unusual vs Highly Refined

Postby everything on Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:44 pm

Some people will say i only want to build the next Fedor.

I don’t care how.

If there is something unusual, let’s add it.

The problem is that’s too hard because it’s already so hard to make 1497 out of 1500 3 foot putts.

It will take all the time you have.

The other possibility is Unusual Talent pursuing the Refined path at an incredibly young age and surrounded by the right people.

That probably explains most of the Messi cases.

It’s not about 10k hours.

The rest of us CANNOT get there. It’s too late!
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Re: Unusual vs Highly Refined

Postby everything on Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:47 pm

As middle aged people, we can’t really get but so much better on that path.

But some of these other things:
- maybe it does not help!
- it might help
- it might be really fascinating

Since you have nothing to do, may as well check.
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Re: Unusual vs Highly Refined

Postby BruceP on Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:58 am

Random thoughts while reading yours;

Unusual is what people are able to create with refinement of method/technique. Proper training and time spent

Almost nothing in nature is perfectly straight. The tips of a bow have to be oriented in such a way that the string is perfectly aligned at the pass in order for every arrow to fly consistently and accurately. Everything between the tips is curved. Finding the straight in the curved is the refinement of tiller. The human body isn't much different.

I like making knives without a single straight line in their profile. Ergonomics, balance and point-control are the only goals, and when they are achieved, it's magical because the neutral axis guides the hand/body intuitively with no guessing or checking.
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Re: Unusual vs Highly Refined

Postby everything on Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:57 pm

Lol I like the random response because my ramblings were rather random late at night.
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Re: Unusual vs Highly Refined

Postby everything on Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:37 pm

I don’t understand the arrow part. It has some curve on purpose?
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Re: Unusual vs Highly Refined

Postby BruceP on Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:36 pm

everything wrote:I don’t understand the arrow part. It has some curve on purpose?


The pass is where the arrow makes contact with the bow while it's drawn - essentially, the launch-point. I was referring to the curve of the bow between the tips/nocks.

The arrow itself is a departure from the basic ideas I was describing, but an arrow does all kinds of flexing both lateral and torsional while it's in flight, and that oscillation is most pronounced immediately after clearing the pass. It's a good point, though, because an arrow has to have an appropriate stiffness (spine) to compliment the draw weight, draw length, and follow-through which make up the sweet-spot inherent in each individual bow.

And more random thoughts befitting the theme of yours;

The unhewn log already knows how to cast an arrow.

Some logs need to be coaxed with nothing more than the removal of extraneous material. Others need to be 'educated' once their foundation is developed.

Each bow stave or log will contain its own, individual character (an actual bowyer's term), and that's where all the curves between the nocks occur. Some logs are exceptional and yield bows with unusual shooting characteristics beyond what one expect - much like Tiger.

A skilled bowyer can coax a functional bow out of just about any unhewn log for at least that one shot that really counts. We're still talking about IMA here, right? ;)
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Re: Unusual vs Highly Refined

Postby everything on Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:31 pm

I'm not sure, but that is really cool sounding stuff for sure.
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Re: Unusual vs Highly Refined

Postby wiesiek on Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:08 am

My feeling of the topic :
unusual - you practiced before( during past live/s/)
highly refined - you are able to do it in one life .
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