Quigga wrote:You become a spectator of inner and outer nature....
Too much knowledge without wisdom leads to holding onto understanding in a pathologically tense way.
By reverse engineering you stumble into all of the potholes. Thus learning why the principles are the way they are. This is called backwards-learning. Forwards-learning is using already established concepts to analyze.
A body as we understand in modern world view is always 3 dimensional.
Space, time and a result of their interactions.
Then what is the universal body? By definition, there is only one body encompassing all of perceivable and unperceivable existence.
How do we learn to access and manipulate this one universal body in our favor and for everyone's well being? The answer is the method.
We got stuck in our understanding of esoteric Chinese practices and those of other cultures because we have a weak grasp of and unprofessional relationship to our language. Instead of trying to force two languages together, we should empower each country's tongue to come to the same conclusions. The wisdom-code is right here. Language a n d and choice of words aren't arbitrary.
Bill wrote:Quigga please.
Just relax.
charles wrote:Quigga wrote:You become a spectator of inner and outer nature....
Observing Nature is the basis for Western physics.
-----
1) Yes, Nature obviously expresses itself in ways we can understand. You seem to fail to make the implied distinction between observing Nature via the lense we call "Western Physics" vs. "Intimately Spectating something and Letting It Change Your Being".Too much knowledge without wisdom leads to holding onto understanding in a pathologically tense way.
Wisdom is "the quality of having experience, knowledge, and good judgment". Many have knowledge but not sufficient experience or good judgement to qualify as wisdom. I suggest that wisdom is rare, though many have knowledge.
-----
2) All words have their distinct meanings and are arranged in patterns - I don't mean context in a sentence, but more like independent, individual, pure spheres that form a relationship via the sentence.
If knowledge is the front-yang part of the process, wisdom is the yin-back part. Knowledge is forwards living, wisdom is backwards living. Living always implies moving forward.By reverse engineering you stumble into all of the potholes. Thus learning why the principles are the way they are. This is called backwards-learning. Forwards-learning is using already established concepts to analyze.
One could probably describe one as interpolating and the other as extrapolating from accepted knowledge.
-----
3) You could say I'm using learned knowledge to inspect learned knowledge. I'm saying break down knowledge and consciousness so that you can learn like a child again.A body as we understand in modern world view is always 3 dimensional.
The mathematician, philosopher and scientist, Descartes, in the 1600's, described "space" in terms of three dimensions.
-----
4)I think we're making essentially the same connection, I mean you and me? I was alluring to people calling their body... Well, body. Not knowing that by all means and purposes there is only one cosmic body with different flows being governed by mediators/judges/generals/etc. With the small ego being just a minor gate administrator.
So when you work your body, by necessity you work your surroundings and if you're good enough across all planes. It just depends on how good your body work is... The underlying principles never change and in essence the way is always the same.Space, time and a result of their interactions.
Modern science regards time as the fourth dimension, building on Descartes' three. Kinematics, a sub-division of mechanics, is concerned with the interactions (motions) of "bodies" in space and time.
-----
5) OK, I made a mistake. I didn't want to say a body's 3 dimensions are space, time and a result of their interactions. I saw the 3 and thought: in essence, what is a body made of? Substance, Change, Observer. Space, Time, Result of blabla.Then what is the universal body? By definition, there is only one body encompassing all of perceivable and unperceivable existence.
I don't know what you mean by "universal body". Why is there only one body encompassing all of perceivable and unperceivable existence? What is the nature of this universal body?
-----
6)The nature of this universal body is like dog shit. Completely ordinary and all you will ever get. You can experience all kinds of bliss in meditation, but it's just a nice distraction.
I don't know why there is an universal body . I just tried explaining it and my head didn't work. It's what feels right and makes sense to me, i.e. my perceived experience.How do we learn to access and manipulate this one universal body in our favor and for everyone's well being? The answer is the method.
We got stuck in our understanding of esoteric Chinese practices and those of other cultures because we have a weak grasp of and unprofessional relationship to our language. Instead of trying to force two languages together, we should empower each country's tongue to come to the same conclusions. The wisdom-code is right here. Language a n d and choice of words aren't arbitrary.
The central issue is that many of the "esoteric Chines practices" produce effects that are "subjective". Any language is comprised of "words". Words are humans' attempt to express and convey to others their experiences. Words are often ambiguous as to their precise meaning, often depending upon context for meaning, and often aren't sufficiently capable of capturing what one experiences. In describing the color blue, for example, to someone who is color blind, words are inadequate to convey the experience. One can attempt to describe the feeling of "qi" circulating, but unless one has experienced it for oneself, it is only academic knowledge. If one hasn't experienced it, how do they know when they have?
-----
7) Those effects are subjective. Yes, of course. But the principles behind them are objective. Employ the correct principles and you will get predictable results. A + B = C.
Principle + Person it's applied to = range of predictable consequences, with a few outliers.
I think of words as literal things that are alive. Sphere-like beings, each completely distinct and individually accessible. We humans muddle the meaning of words with morality and false notions designed to protect our Selfs. This is stupid.
In your example with blue... Why would I even try to describe it with words? That's a failing operation from the beginning. Has it been studied? Like telling blind people how colors feel and then asking if they saw something like that. Or maybe those are just two different ways for being to express itself: words and vision. What you lack you can't use to build. I don't know.
If you don't feel Chi you don't have any emotions whatsoever and never change your activity. It's exactly this pretentiousness about Chi that makes it harder to understand. Of course you can refine your feelings when talking about certain circulations etc. Everybody feels something in their, even if it's stagnation and desperation.
Just use this as a base for cultivation.
-----
While it is important in most forms of communication to chose specific words that, as much as possible, avoid miscommunication or ambiguity of meaning, that still is insufficient in some circumstances, particularly those that are more esoteric/subjective.
8) Sure, humans misunderstood each other since forever. That's our way. In the end the phenomenona don't matter anyway. What matters are the principles, the truth of reality... How it feels, looks, works doesn't matter. It only matters that it matters.
------
It is, I believe, essential to recognize that "cultivation" is an experiential process. Words and language can't replace first-hand experience in such practices. In popular vernacular, the words and language are the map, the experience is the terrain.
-----
9) Absolutely right! Now throw away the map and the terrain and be free! Or something like that.
Words can initiate you by your own unconscious doing into a small glimpse of emptiness. I don't want more than to light a few fires with a handful of poems.
Return to Xingyiquan - Baguazhang - Taijiquan
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests