BJJ framing and Peng

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

BJJ framing and Peng

Postby rojcewiczj on Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:54 am

Is Peng energy referring to the same phenomenon as BJJ's framing theory? In BJJ framing refers to disallowing your opponent from manipulating your limbs as levers through effective angles and weight bearing.

I'd highly recommend checking this video out on BJJ's framing theory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUC7CFMRVMA
rojcewiczj
Anjing
 
Posts: 226
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:09 am

Re: BJJ framing and Peng

Postby Bao on Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:01 pm

No it's not.
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog)
- Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert
- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
Bao
Great Old One
 
Posts: 9007
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: High up north

Re: BJJ framing and Peng

Postby johnwang on Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:03 pm

Something like this - use your structure to keep your opponent away?

Image
Last edited by johnwang on Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Crow weep in the dark. Tide bellow in the north wind. How lonesome the world.
User avatar
johnwang
Great Old One
 
Posts: 10240
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:26 pm

Re: BJJ framing and Peng

Postby GrahamB on Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:50 pm

I think the answer is "it can be, depending on how you do it".

For clarity "peng" can have 2 meanings - either "Jin being used in an upwards direction" which is directional, or alternatively a kind of all over "basic Jin" which is channeling the ground force in whatever direction to meet the incoming force. I'm thinking of the the 2nd meaning - "basic Jin", here.

In the video by Rory, he uses frames by keeping the arms locked out straight - this is not like basic jin use in Chinese martial arts. It's quite "hard". However, when using Jin you can learn to not "lock out" your arms and achieve the same results though a connected structure and a channeling of the ground force to the point required using the intent (Yi). This is "softer".

If you can do it standing, then you can learn to use it on the ground. (In theory).

Image
Last edited by GrahamB on Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:04 pm, edited 8 times in total.
One does not simply post on RSF.
The Tai Chi Notebook
User avatar
GrahamB
Great Old One
 
Posts: 13554
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:30 pm

Re: BJJ framing and Peng

Postby rojcewiczj on Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:27 pm

My impression is that Peng energy is using a frame in a more flexible way to allow expression of your body force more than keeping distance.
rojcewiczj
Anjing
 
Posts: 226
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:09 am

Re: BJJ framing and Peng

Postby Quigga on Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:36 pm

For me Peng Jin is what you get when you cultivate understanding of water and fascia in the body. You could also ask what state of mind resembles the 2nd definition of Graham for PJ.

You 'frame' the body structure with bones and fascia, 'fill' it with water, fat and relaxation. It's 'universal ground power'. Imagine if the line from the above picture would go from every point of his body, through his body, then into the ground.

This is water wanting to settle down to earth. Then you need a counterforce for all this sinking. What you get by stacking the bones properly, connecting them to the fascia. Thus having a kind of self regulating omnidirectional for force transfer net, I. E. structure.

All in relation to Heaven/rising and Earth/sinking or just up and down.

When I practiced well, I feel puffed up and filled, heavier and stretched out kinda. This makes fighting easier.
Last edited by Quigga on Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quigga

 

Re: BJJ framing and Peng

Postby robert on Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:06 pm

Here is Yang jun discussing Peng jin - starts around 4:10.

The method of practicing this boxing art is nothing more than opening and closing, passive and active. The subtlety of the art is based entirely upon their alternations. Chen Xin
robert
Wuji
 
Posts: 741
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:32 am

Re: BJJ framing and Peng

Postby johnwang on Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:50 pm

Chang Taiji "ward off".

Image
Crow weep in the dark. Tide bellow in the north wind. How lonesome the world.
User avatar
johnwang
Great Old One
 
Posts: 10240
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:26 pm

Re: BJJ framing and Peng

Postby Fubo on Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:30 pm

You can apply Peng Jin to framing, but framing in the BJJ context is not an example of Peng Jin. People I have met and trained with in BJJ that teach and use framing did not have Peng Jin.
Fubo
Wuji
 
Posts: 1286
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:13 pm

Re: BJJ framing and Peng

Postby johnwang on Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:12 pm

When you use right arm and left leg at the same time, you need to use Peng Jing. It works very good when you push on your opponent's neck.

Image
Crow weep in the dark. Tide bellow in the north wind. How lonesome the world.
User avatar
johnwang
Great Old One
 
Posts: 10240
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:26 pm

Re: BJJ framing and Peng

Postby everything on Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:00 pm

no
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
“most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. Source of all true art & science
User avatar
everything
Wuji
 
Posts: 8262
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 7:22 pm
Location: USA

Re: BJJ framing and Peng

Postby everything on Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:01 pm

framing and the identical concepts are good stuff, though.
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
“most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. Source of all true art & science
User avatar
everything
Wuji
 
Posts: 8262
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 7:22 pm
Location: USA

Re: BJJ framing and Peng

Postby rojcewiczj on Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:48 am

While I think that the more superficial concept of framing, as keeping your limbs in rigid positions to so as to make or maintain space, has little relevance for CMA. I do think that the concept of the frame as a load bearing structure is very useful. In my experience, while CMA movements are practiced often in the air, their true utility comes out when bearing a load. Like leaning yourself on a wall to do push ups, once your weight is on something you find that your arms have to maintain a certain structure in order to continue to bear your weight and also make movements.
rojcewiczj
Anjing
 
Posts: 226
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:09 am

Re: BJJ framing and Peng

Postby GrahamB on Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:38 am

I don't think the rigid frame is always a good idea in BJJ either - it gives away a flying armbar too easily.

Image

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptpcqKqT-rE

One does not simply post on RSF.
The Tai Chi Notebook
User avatar
GrahamB
Great Old One
 
Posts: 13554
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:30 pm

Re: BJJ framing and Peng

Postby yeniseri on Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:02 am

BJJ framing and CMA are a perfect synthesis as observed from Tim Cartmell and the excellent job he is doing with "integration" within martial and competetive sport!
I have never studied with Mr Cartmell but from what I have seen and heard, his instruction is the apex within the template of CMA.
Last edited by yeniseri on Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
When fascism comes to US America, It will be wrapped in the US flag and waving a cross. An astute patriot
yeniseri
Wuji
 
Posts: 3797
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:49 pm
Location: USA

Next

Return to Xingyiquan - Baguazhang - Taijiquan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests