Jordon Peterson

[Taste of Death]

I have a degree in literature and am currently an MFA candidate. I won't be going to any of JP's parties. He sounds like he drinks Bud Light.

"Peterson says that "disciplines like women's studies should be defunded," advising freshman students to avoid subjects like sociology, anthropology, English literature, ethnic studies, and racial studies, as well as other fields of study that he believes are corrupted by the neo-Marxist ideology. He believes these fields to propagate cult-like behaviour and safe-spaces, under the pretense of academic inquiry." - Wikipedia

https://themedium.ca/comment/what-does-peterson-have-against-humanities/

[Trick]

I think he’s onto something there, fraternities and clubs for the invited initiated, skulls’n bones and stuff,,,yes cultish stuff it seem
Friends who have joined such have changed, blank expressions and dry minded, as if they been infested by something. Reminds me of some old Si-Fi horror movie I can’t remember the name of

[Overlord]

I have a degree in literature and am currently an MFA candidate. I won't be going to any of JP's parties. He sounds like he drinks Bud Light.

"Peterson says that "disciplines like women's studies should be defunded," advising freshman students to avoid subjects like sociology, anthropology, English literature, ethnic studies, and racial studies, as well as other fields of study that he believes are corrupted by the neo-Marxist ideology. He believes these fields to propagate cult-like behaviour and safe-spaces, under the pretense of academic inquiry." - Wikipedia

https://themedium.ca/comment/what-does-peterson-have-against-humanities/

When I was doing me science major, I was forced to take at least two social studies subjects by the university.
They were neither relevent nor constructive to my studies of science and future business endeavor.
The redudancy of these subjects such as, gender studies, transgender studies, feminism perplexed me often.
It is later on thru self learning on the Declaration of Independence, and on work by Thomas Paine and Frédéric Bastiat I asked myself why I was never taught them in university. Actually these fundamental value should be taught in kindergarden,

All the so called social science program most of them can all be easily be drafted under one subject: ethics and moral, it's pointless spending so much resources or time on them. Keep it simple.

[Steve James]

It is later on thru self learning on the Declaration of Independence, and on work by Thomas Paine and Frédéric Bastiat I asked myself why I was never taught them in university. Actually these fundamental value should be taught in kindergarden,

All the so called social science program most of them can all be easily be drafted under one subject: ethics and moral, it's pointless spending so much resources or time on them. Keep it simple.

The Declaration is very much based in ethics and morality and "social science" if that refers to describing right and wrong in human societies, and ultimately in creating ideal societies. The idea that "All men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" is fundamentally a moral or ethical statement. And, yeah, the Declaration could be taught in kindergarten or every July Fourth. Paine also argued for an egalitarian society.

I get the impression that many people who mention it or the Declaration just repeat what someone told them it means. So, here it is from the National Archive. https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/ ... transcript

Anyway, I don't think everyone should or needs to go to college. I've dealt with thousands of first year students, and always told them to take the courses that attracted them. If they wanted to be a physicist, they'd have to take calculus. Many, however, struggled with precalc and said they hated it. Boom. Next year they say they're switching to the humanities . No matter what Petersen says about males, that doesn't mean anything about the majority of them.

Yeah, keep it simple. Don't take courses that you don't like.

[Quigga]

Taste of Death, with the Bud Light comment, are you implying he has a redneck attitude? Are you engaging in prejudice and judgemental behavior right now? How about some mandatory sensibilty training so you learn to appreciate others' reality more?

I'd say if you critically examine women's roles in history and society, you should do the same with men and not lump them together as 'evil, oppressive patriarchy'. Where's the quota for women and LGBTQ minorities in professions where it gets dangerous and dirty? I mean jumping into tanks of fermented animal excrements to fix a blockage, underwater welding, garbage collectors and actively slaughtering butchers, oil rig workers...

Or a men quota for nurses, teachers, kindergardeners, heck, why not midwifes?

Nooo, it's just those prestigious positions where you earn a lot without getting dirty.
The stereotypical cliché of a nagging wife who can't get enough luxuries thrown her way is what comes to mind.

It's all ideology driven bullshit caused by being too sensitive. If you need a safe space, stay home and get treatment there or go to a psychiatry institution.

Universities should teach you how to think, reflect and feel properly, how to analyze and temporarily adopt arguments that run contrary to your current worldview.

I agree with Overlord.

[Quigga]

Steve, by only doing what one likes, we ended up in this hedonistic shithole of a timeline, where people are told to follow their unbalanced and uncultivated hearts, confusing themselves and society even more as there are no parameters that set their character and behavior straight anymore, other than poverty, sickness, poor mental health... Which corporations like to exploit.

Give people nothing to strive for other than their own happiness and watch everything collapse because every arse out there FEELS SO DEEPLY in their heart that little else matters.

[Steve James]

Well, you're confused. I did what I liked in college by taking courses I was interested in, not going to parties and enjoying happiness. In fact, I had a family and was working full time while I went to school.

I worked for 52 years, only 25 in academia. I told my students what they needed to do to succeed in college. The first thing was that they had to want to learn. If they had the bourgeois attitude that they were there to be trained for the workforce as robots, they were likely to end up disappointed, working for someone else, and bitching about their place in life.

Ooops. I also wanted to say that I'd gladly go back to bus driving or carpentry. I repeat. I don't think everyone should go to college. So, I don't get excited hearing people whine about the courses they had to take or are given. Htfu. Change the channel.

[Quigga]

Maybe I should have made clear that I didn't mean you as a person? Rather that some things are hard and scary before they are fun. Wasn't supposed to be an attack, just venting frustration.

In school I had a lot of strict and harsh teachers, among some very forgiving and understanding ones... I appreciated the harshness as a teenager and abused/manipulated the kind ones. Them being strict and careful with handing out praise and good grades made my accomplishments feel... more worthwhile.

Mad props to you Steve for working your ass off to be where you are.

[Steve James]

No worries, I don't really take anything personally. I just worry about over-generalizations, especially when they assume someone else's pov. I understand how "do what you like" can be considered hedonistic or self-indulgent. Actually, it's the opposite. It means that if a student picks courses that he'll be eager to work hard at, he's more likely to be successful. Iow, if he enjoys the hard work, it's not even work. Can you imagine a theoretical physicist who doesn't enjoy doing physics 12 hours a day?

I'm more lucky than good afa my own life. I went back to college late, and had the advantage of not wanting to bs or socialize. I was working, so I wasn't looking for a job. I was there to learn, not to be trained, and I didn't even care about grades. Many of my classmates, otoh, only wanted to get a C and graduate. So, when I started teaching, the one quality I wanted to instill and that my students have is the desire to learn.

[Quigga]

How do you instill the desire to learn in others?

[Steve James]

Wow, that's a great question. It's really simple, make the student interested in him or herself. All true knowledge begins with self knowledge. No one can give that to him; but, once it happens, if it happens, the student will learn on his own.

I can say that any professor or teacher you've had that you've really learned from probably loved what he taught and cared about his students. If your teacher asks about you, you're more likely to listen.

I can say what doesn't work is just trying to teach a subject. It's the student who must be educated. The saying I use was that "A student is not a cup to be filled, but a light to be lit." That's the difference between education and training, imo.

[Quigga]

Filling the cup would be training and starting the fire education? The cup is full at some point and needs to be broken and replaced, the fire can consume the wood given by a teacher by itself and grow bigger.

What would you say is self knowledge? Do you mean that by being interested in your self, by learning more about your self, you become more curious about the topic at hand?

[Steve James]

Students aren't cups to be filled was the point.

What is self-knowledge? Well, the search for that answer goes back a long way in western and Asian philosophy. Chose Socrates or Sun Tzu, ymmv.

Do you mean that by being interested in your self, by learning more about your self, you become more curious about the topic at hand?

Not exactly. I'm saying that I had many students who weren't interested in history, but didn't know any. I asked them about their own histories, where they came from, and whether they knew. In a folklore course, I'd ask whether they knew the origin of their names, and and other things they allegedly "knew." The whole point is to get the student involved. Disinterested students shouldn't be in college, but they're often the majority in many classes. The trick is getting to them.

Personally, I taught subjects that interested me. It was fun, and the only reason I retired was because of the administrative bs and the lack of concern for and expectations for students. I had first-hand experience of that before I became a teacher.

So, one part of "know thyself" I emphasized to my students was that they were the paying customers, and that they should demand their educational dollar's worth. They had to take the responsibility for an education into their own hands. They had to realize that the college would let them graduate without knowing how to write standard English. I got in trouble with the college Provost because I put write standard English sentences as a learning outcome on my syllabus. She didn't like it, but my students --some who were bilingual, or who had been out of school did. They knew they wanted to improve. As Clint said, "A man's got to know his limitations."

[Taste of Death]

I understand how "do what you like" can be considered hedonistic or self-indulgent. Actually, it's the opposite. It means that if a student picks courses that he'll be eager to work hard at, he's more likely to be successful. Iow, if he enjoys the hard work, it's not even work. Can you imagine a theoretical physicist who doesn't enjoy doing physics 12 hours a day?

My TA (a literature PhD candidate) in an African Novel class had an engineering degree from India. He said he didn't realize learning could be fun until he began studying literature.

[Taste of Death]

When I was doing me science major, I was forced to take at least two social studies subjects by the university. They were neither relevent nor constructive to my studies of science and future business endeavor.

I am so sorry your university tried to force an education on you. How would you know what was relevant to your future endeavors, whatever they may be, until you graduated and were out in the real world? A computer science major who wishes to work in the video game industry needs to take playwriting or screenwriting classes to learn how to construct a narrative for games. You might have benefitted from a more diverse education so you wouldn't be fooled by clowns like Jordan Peterson.