Steve James wrote:Hey Bao, what do you personally think happens at a re-education camp in China, generally? Do you think re-education is necessary? would you call these places re-education camps of something else?
Granted that calling them work camps or concentration camps might be an exaggeration, if they exist, do you think they are a good thing?
Steve James wrote:, though improving educational opportunities everywhere doesn't seem to require camps for specific minority groups.
For the record, I don't like the sound or look of "re-education" camps, no matter the reason.
Bao wrote:
There are probably various degrees of re-education. I don't doubt that they try to discover radical islamists and deal with them in various ways. Every country have their own fight against terrorists. Yet, there are schools in many different places in China where people from small areas have a chance to re-educate them, or get a new education. It's not only in Xinjiang. There are also Han Chinese in rural areas that get this opportunity. They might be farmers or workers in places where there are no work left, so they need to add things to their skills. China is rapidly opened up and modernised. Extreme poverty is almost gone in China and people need to be relocated. So they need education and skills. Trying to teach them a nationalistic thinking might be on the table or a standard ingredient even if the school is more about learning than re-education. But this is what the government is trying to do with all Chinese. There's a massive Chinese nationalistic propaganda in Chinese media. But how is it different from what you find in many countries in the West?
You know, I have already mentioned that I know several Chinese Muslims in China, even Uighurs. They are successful and do well in society. If someone would suggest that they would laugh. So knowing what I have said in the past, for someone as Graham to say that I don’t like Muslims is not only a very juvenile kind of provocation, but it also show how the China haters are completely unreceptive for things that goes against their extremist beliefs. When you come with information or facts, sometimes that are very easy to look up and verify, they won't even notice that they exist. In general, they have no idea what is going on in China right now, they have no clue who Xi Jinping is or how minorities live in China. And obviously they couldn't care less.
Bao wrote:
But there are not only Uighurs in those camps in Xinjiang, there are people from various groups. What they have in common is that they come from small, distant rural areas. The minority group is not the common factor. So it’s not pointed only towards Uighurs, or even at Muslims. There are similar schools in other parts of China where there are no Muslim minorities.
chud wrote:Another common factor is that many of the people in these camps are there against their own will, and often their families don't hear from them again.
Steve James wrote:The overall "truth" is probably somewhere in the middle.
Steve James wrote:In the latter case, one question might be whether the returnees are allowed to remain Muslims. They aren't newcomers to China, after all. So, are claims of cultural eradication partially or wholly true? Is it like what was done to Aboriginal people in Australia or Indians here?
Steve James wrote:I don't believe that all the reports of abuses are made up to make China look bad --specifically by the US. I do believe that anti-Chinese propaganda coming from internal dissidents is more trustworthy in one sense, but is also suspect.
Anyway, back to the genocide aspect. If this were 1940, and someone was telling me about atrocities in Europe, why would I believe him? And, vice versa, why wouldn't I?
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