johnwang wrote:Instead of using the SC term "扣(Kou) - Knee seizing", or "撿(Jian) - Foot picking", I use the term "single leg" much loosely. As long as I can pick up my opponent's leading leg into my arm, I'll call that "single leg". I can do that by knee strike, shoulder strike, shin bite, foot scoop, foot sweep, outer hook, inner hook, ...
I do think the SC single leg is safer to use than the wrestling single leg. At least you can use one arm to control your opponent's arm/arms. Your opponent will have less chance to punch on your head (compare to the wrestling single leg that your opponent's both arms are still free).
bailewen wrote: A wrestlers single leg requires a level drop and a massive forward charge.
Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:I'd press you to provide any evidence to support your claims that CMA had the weapons to deal with skilled and committed ankle picks. It seems like you are just reverse engineering what you want to be in the forms. And, no, I don't think developing powerful shin kicks or dog boxing fall into this catergory of being able to properly deal with a wrestler.
You say it's a myth. I say it's an obvious reality. Otherwise, we could see it in action far more often. The fact is that not every art can deal equally well with everything. It's a matter of time and preference.
Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:I have long loved the Zhao Bao guy, but there are not that many people training like that even in his lineage. I've see other under the table training and even did some myself as it was in my taijiquan lineage. It was never said that this was to counter low attacks. It was for lower basin training.
As for evidence - let's go one step further. Here is a sequence. Find a wrestler and try it.
The only caveat - just follow the sequence. Not variations and changes because as everyone knows - a variation will require a change to the sequence.
1. both face off in a crouched stance & both have their left leg slightly forward
2. wrestler shoots a low single
3. you hop back about 30cm keeping the left leg forward & hands lower to the opponents head (left) and shoulder (right)
4. then elongate the right leg back into a long stance &
4.i press the left hand on top of the wrestlers head
4.ii press the right hand on top of the wrestlers left shoulder
4.iii lead left leg is deep angled to about 45 degrees vs. 90 degrees (image below is 90 degrees)
These points are to stuff the initial low single.
For illustration:NOTE: wrestlers head is on the outside of the lead left leg
5. Wrestler's attack is pressed but a decent wrestler will re-attack. In this example they lift their left leg up and press forward pushing their whole body slightly outward onto the lead leg
6. The momentum lifts your left leg slightly back but you also fold into dragon coiling posture
6.i the left hand now presses the wrestlers head from their left temple outward
6.ii the right hand that was on the shoulder scoops from the bottom of the shoulder7. The wrestlers momentum and the directing of the head plus the shoulder turn results in the wrestler being turned to their right side
Next steps are up to you which can include pancaking the wrestler or twisting/hopping the left foot out but the point is the use of the traditional postures.
NOTE: although this sequence illustrates CMA postures being applied it is more than that. It is a sequence breakdown that occurred in a wrestling session. I won't make any assumptions it will work on a young Matt Hughes or the next Olympian but I am highlighting that this sequence did work in the context of a mat.
why do so much lower basin training if it does not help handle lower attacks?
Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:you could just be reverse engineering--
johnwang wrote:Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:you could just be reverse engineering--
This is an issue for CMA. You try to find a move in a form that can be used for certain application. But if you look at that person's hands position, and his eyes focus point, you can tell that his intention is not in single leg counter.
Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:I have no reason to doubt that this worked for you. But, it doesn't prove that that's how the postures were used (it's not the only way to apply those postures, for one thing). Again, it seems like you could just be reverse engineering--nothing wrong with that. Showing what you are talking about in a live setting would be most convincing.
Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:Lower basin training can only be done when one is able to maintain the internal mechanics in the low stances, and gradually goes lower and lower until you can do it under a table. But, it is not a way to perform applied techniques in the taijiquan I am familiar with. It does improve your applications when you do them at whatever height you need, but it's a way to build kung fu, not a way to practice applications.
dspyrido wrote:In hsing-i there are the 5 elements. Wood is taught with a certain bend, a certain elbow position and a certain height. If the arm is slightly higher is this a different punch? In all of the hsing-i,xy,xylh the philosophy is - be shown a few moves, practice them intensely to get the coordination & power behind them and then you can apply them to in 1000's of ways.
johnwang wrote:Will you be able to come up
- hook punch,
- downward hook,
- back fist,
- spin back fist,
- hammer fist,
- spiral fist,
from the XY, or XYLH system?
johnwang wrote:This is the way that I look at MA training.
- I want technique X in my toolbox.
- But it's not in my MA system A.
- Where can I get it?
- I can get it from MA system B.
- I need to cross train MA system B.
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