Crazy (and not-so-crazy) shit about Covid-19

[jimmy]

Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

[Steve James]

Another milestone; the stock market hit 30K. And, we back to one reported coronavirus death every minute --more like every 55 seconds.

[Peacedog]

Another article indicating that the numbers of death being reported as caused by Covid-19 is suspect.

As I've pointed out before, a big problem with the reporting on Covid-19 has been the use of Covid-19 as the cause of death when in fact another cause was the actual cause (i.e. someone dies of a heart attack, but has Covid-19 and the death is reported as being caused by Covid-19).

What this report indicates is that the seasonal average for the total numbers of deaths in the US have not substantially changed. This brings into question just how many people are being killed by the disease and that misreporting may be presenting the disease as a much bigger problem than it actually is.

This may also be why countries like New Zealand are reporting such low numbers. Their overall number of deaths hasn't risen much and they are just reporting Covid-19 deaths as something else. Given the issues with testing writ large and the inability to keep anti-bodies long term (vice memory cells in the acquired immune system), I'm beginning to suspect we'll never understand just what the actual death and infection rates are.

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/m ... n-n1178930

[Steve James]

Ok, let's ignore the cause of death. Why are there so many more people hospitalized? The more people in a hospital, the fewer staff and resources there are to serve them. Two things follow. One is there are inevitably more deaths because of lack of resources. So, even if they come and are admitted for kidney disease, strained staff and resources means that they may not need the care they need. It's also true that full hospitals turn potential patients off, and they don't get care --even for other afflictions. Secondly, hospital staff can't work forever.

Yes. I'm saying that if hospitalizations don't go down, then deaths will go up. But, reducing deaths is only one part of the problem that needs to be solved. Arguments about the actual number of deaths does nothing to prevent them. So, fine, let's say that there've only been 150K deaths from covid instead of 260K. When there's 500K, we can do the same. But, right now, a person who's tested for covid dies every 35 seconds.

[Giles]

I checked out the summary of the Briand report mentioned in the link and as far as I can tell (?) it doesn't address the concrete issue of, and figures for, excess mortality in the USA in 2020. The caveat about which deaths are ascribed to Covid-19 cuts both ways: people dying of, say, a cardiovascular disease and also testing Covid-positive when they would have died anyway, vs. people who had, say, a cardiovascular disease and would have kept on but who either had an undiagnosed case of Covid or who had 'recovered' from Covid but weeks or months later died from their 'primary' illness because the longer-term effects Covid had kicked out some timbers in the foundations, so to speak. --- Of course, there might also be the possibility that the effects of lockdown and/or economic losses that would have come about anyway due to Covid are driving significantly more people to commit suicide or to OD than would otherwise be the case, and hence also pushing up the excess mortality, but I haven't heard any reports to this effect. (?)

So excess mortality - the number of deaths above the average for several previous years - gives a clearer perspective as to what's going on. To see whether the disease is actually killing a lot more people than would otherwise be the case, unless credible alternative causes can be proposed.
In this study, as far as I can see, the mortality for 2020 is compared to the average mortality for 2015-2019:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6942e2.htm

And the excess mortality in the USA is roughly 300,000.

[everything]

Yes, it's very hard to count correctly and consistently for the various reasons mentioned as well as probably other reasons. Math(s) can be done if there is good data, but if not, something like "excess" mortality vs. previous years' trends is easiest/most accurate in a "directional" way.

"It's better to have an approximate answer to the right question than an exact answer to the wrong question which can be made precise."

[jimmy]

sorry... i think i meant to play this one here.

[Giles]

Hah, Gordon Gano looking around 13 years old...

[everything]

Three most recent ex Presidents to get vaccine on camera to boost public confidence.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart ... ns-silent/?

Deaths hits all time high.
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/covid- ... _lead_pos2

Stock market exuberant, holding near record levels.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/stock-ma ... 13961.html

Crazy or not-so-crazy.

[Steve James]

Crazy or not-so-crazy.

Do you mean the number of deaths or the record-breaking stock market? Or, the high unemployment rate and the miles long food lines?

We have to open America back up to save the economy, no? It would be nice if every household could just have clean water. Oh well.

[everything]

unemployment, food bank lines, hospitalizations and deaths. all largely avoidable if we took it seriously at the same time in a more brief period. bad policies, corrupt or inept leaders, dumb followers, science denial, etc., etc.

stock market is actually optimistic due to coming vaccines, and beyond that, economic things like travel, jobs, etc.

[wiesiek]

kind of side note:
I heard discussion about one of recent "Nature" article -
... we have the solid evidence that covid attack nerve system, as the 1st move.
From this point its growing up or or not...

yup
Pandemy is in the state of mind.

[wiesiek]

from the economic side:
major undertable plan is to make one , just one central government`s bank, this will make everything very simple - one person = one banking account. No cash, just easy to control electronics impulses .

unfortunately its not from the flat earth pages

[roger hao]

Time to talk about what is in the vaccine.

Robert Kennedy Jr says it is an mRNA. Is that true?

That it is irreversible once administered.
So that means it is not an antibody reaction at all.
What happens? Does it change your DNA to create T-cells?

[roger hao]

OK - he is right - unless my quick google from Moderna is incorrect -

Messenger ribonucleuc acid, or mRNA for short, plays a vital role in human biology, specifically in a process known as protein synthesis. mRNA is a single-stranded molecule that carries genetic code from DNA in a cell’s nucleus to ribosomes, the cell’s protein-making machinery.

So it is supposed to generate proteins that go eat coronavirus.