Master Simu Kuo (wife of the late master Sifu Kuo Lien Ying)

[shawnsegler]

Kuo's stuff is legit.

Just fyi, Kuo's organization puts a heavy emphasis on training Tantui and Cha Boxing before they take up taiji, so you'll often see a lot of that flavor carrying through.

That being said, as far as the taiji goes, there's a section in the Guang Ping form that is 100 percent identical in a Zhaobao form I've seen....so, take that from it what you will.

Their stuff is first rate and the people from that lineage that I've who I've met that are good are VERY good. It's disseminated to a LOT of people who only do it for health, but it's a real fighting system, so it's a pretty mixed bag. I wouldn't base an opinion on the style by looking at Simu.

FWIW.

[shawnsegler]

Here's my old teacher from that lineages, disciple (many years ago) doing a couple of their muslim longfist routines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsznoNyvWGU

[Giles]

Also KLY's student Y.C. Chiang

This I like very much indeed. I'm glad to get new perspectives on this style - I think my Spock eyebrow is lowering

Shawn: you mention you met very good people from this style. I assume you also crossed hands with them in some fashion. What kind of qualities did you experience, and did any of these qualities seem to relate to aspects of the form in question? Do you know what kinds of partner training they did?

[Shinobi]

Is Kuo definitely Yang Banhou lineage? I remember reading something where Tian Zhaolin's son said both the Guang Ping and Yangjia Michuan Tai Chi didn't come from Banhou and Jianhou. Maybe he was making it up and wanted his father's Tai Chi to be seen as the best non YCF Yang lineage Tai Chi.

[nicklinjm]

Tbh that is opening up a historical can of worms. Nowadays we can see the form of inheritors of Yang Banhou from the Yang family home town (Yongnian, both from YBH's grand-nephew Bai Zhongxin and his disciple Li Wancheng) and Kuo's form is pretty different, both in terms of moves and shenfa.

Same goes for Wang Yannian's Yang style - it may well have many elements of Old Yang from Yang Jianhou, but by comparing to the form of the students of Xu Yusheng, Niu Chunming, Tian Zhaolin etc we can see that it is not 'the' Old Yang form as claimed.

[Taste of Death]

Even in the yang cf form punch down is not intended to be used in that manner
It can be but it is about learning to punch in a fully relaxed manner and engaging the whole arm spine to knuckles
It is the same reason for using Phoenix eye fist in beng chuan
If you look at Kous form you can see it predates the YCF form
It starts like Wu has bits of Sun and things that point to YCF
It was a form I never wanted to dip too deeply into but the time I spent watching and discussing it I felt was of value
Kous place in both Taiwan and the states should not be under estimated
If only for the role in killer elite

I learned Guang Ping Yang from Henry Look. The downward punch is meant to strike an opponent lying prone on the ground. The full weight of the body delivers the punch to the chest.

GPY uses a 60/40 stance like bagua.

Here is Henry Look doing the form and showing some of the applications on Kung Fu Theater. Form at 6:31 and application at 11:44.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRgFCN13Igw

[Formosa Neijia]

In the video she appears to be teaching the woman Tan Tui - I get the feeling that the Tai Chi was one of a number of arts being practiced together. I also detect strong "opera training" overtones to the whole thing - extreme flexibility being one.

What you're detecting isn't an "opera training" overtone, it's one of the jibengong/basics that nearly everyone was required to do back in the day. Since the general consensus is that stuff is rubbish/external/Crossfit, etc. it might be best to get how its done from people that see the value in doing it:

Pretty soon, you'll have to go to these movement people to get the old-time kungfu stuff.

As to "a number of arts being practiced together" many teachers back in the day saw taiji as a direct descendant from shaolin long fist and general Qi Ji-guang's book listing many of the Chen style taiji moves seems to back that up. His expression of the taiji looks like a relic of how things were really done back in the old days before endless twirling of the hands and joints made its way into taiji.

It kind of amazes me that Kuo and his wife were able to maintain these standards in such a hippy-filled atmosphere and they resisted the urge to go all Zheng Man-ching.

[Ian C. Kuzushi]

Yeah, I am very dubious that chin to toe has anything to do with opera any more than martial training. More S.M. reverse engineering to prove his thesis that he came up with before doing any research. Low basin training was a staple of old yang style.

A very close friend and training partner trained the Kuo line via YC Chiang and another East Bay gent whose name escapes me. He is the one who introduced me to the US Kuoshu federation and their Baltimore tournament. There are some vids of us doing cooperative drills and some light pushing many years ago on the forum somewhere. I was impressed that my buddy was able to do chin to toe in about a month. He said he just had to spend one to two hours a day working at it. There are other styles that also emphasize extreme flexibility like 10th planet jiujitsu. Bravo has said that he won't even consider giving a BB until someone can reach certain levels of Gumby.

[windwalker]

Paying the rent and eating often determine the market that one uses to do so.

“The old traditional masters, they were so protective of themselves,” comments Chin. “They made sure they could make a living. They didn’t want the students to compete against them.”

In ancient times, a kung fu master’s art was his livelihood, so they were always vigilant against potential traitors. While few still earn all of their living from martial arts, the tradition of secrecy continues to create swirling controversies. In many traditions, keeping secrets is inherent, not just from students but also from the government. With our own national security now wrestling with the touchy issue of personal privacy, it’s worth examining how our martial forefathers hid the arts underground. These subversive masters were catalysts for evolution.

Many of the noted public teachers in the area my home town had indoor and outdoor students.
Some known for teaching the local tong gang members , the teachers themselves brought over as enforces for the gangs.

Chin was introduced to Kuo by his tai chi teacher, Lau Yee Sing.

“When I watched him demonstrate, I had some doubts,” confesses Chin, “because his tai chi was not as big frame and graceful.

It was not square or circular and a little hard.

So Master Kuo asked me to root in a bow stance and put both arms in front of my chest.
His hands touched my elbows lightly. Suddenly, he shook his body and I flipped into the air and fell ten feet away.

https://www.usadojo.com/keeping-kung-fu ... avid-chin/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkqxXDQW2vc