Quigga wrote:dspyrido - No idea. I guess there's a good chance the internal guys would get their face smashed in. None of their videos show opponents as aggressive and capable as the one's you've listed. I'm not going to fanboy in either direction. I merely wanted to say that 'my' list has a skill set yours doesn't - and probably vice versa. What intrigues me is if there can't be a combination of both skill sets or whether that's just a pipedream.
Bhassler wrote:Quigga wrote:Bassler: Why not Kelley Graham or Sam Chin? Do they present themselves differently? Of all the people I've mentioned I'd probably like to see Ryabko and Mizner the most in the ring. Mizner said himself that he was too old and too badly conditioned, his main focus is Buddhism anyway (Yet I don't see how that excludes combat/ring fighting). The same probably applies to Ryabko. I think 30 seconds would be enough to see a meaningful result. 'Ancient warrior art' gets thrown around a lot - I don't think there are any left or they're all dying out, on the verge of extinction. When I get the Kickstarter going, I'll post a link
Yeah, they just do their thing and seem sincerely interested in sharing with those who want to learn, without talking a bunch of shit, etc. I know some of Sam Chin's guys have fought in tournaments. What they do doesn't do it for me, personally, but I respect the practice.
Ryabko stays on the list because I kind of like Systema and want to see good Systema guys go against dudes from other backgrounds. Might have to find someone younger and more in their prime, though. Mizner and Liang De Hua are full on con artists.
rojcewiczj wrote:I think the general mystery aura around internal martial arts is based on the peculiarity of striking without distance. No distance or short distance striking energy is extremely useful for controlling/destabilizing your opponent but it easily collapses into pushing and pulling. It also implies a different fighting strategy than long distance striking (kickboxing boxing) or pure grappling which is generally mixed with more muscular pulling/pushing/squeezing (judo, BJJ, wrestling).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDbhWW2Yebs
Demonstration style reactions aside, I think the concept of what Mizner/Liang De Hua are teaching is that proper internal training is a way to cultivate the ability to "hit" your opponent from zero distance, which isn't very mysterious when you feel what a wrestlers "blast double leg" feels like. It feels like getting hit, not pushed.
Doc Stier wrote:To assume that the top exponents of any style in previous generations never trained sufficiently enough to successfully face serious opponents with speed, power and skills comparable to modern MMA fighters is laughable.
dspyrido wrote:Doc Stier wrote:To assume that the top exponents of any style in previous generations never trained sufficiently enough to successfully face serious opponents with speed, power and skills comparable to modern MMA fighters is laughable.
Ah but the real questions are ....
How did they fight?
1. Like these mma guys OR
2. Like some mystical guru who makes people bounce around?
How did they train?
1. Hours of gentle push hands seeking their softening fascia kua to off opponents OR
2. Hours of sparring against hard fighters trying to take their heads off yet using the laws of physics (leverage, timing, speed, being calm under pressure etc.)
dspyrido wrote:How did they train?
1. Hours of gentle push hands seeking their softening fascia kua to off opponents OR
2. Hours of sparring against hard fighters trying to take their heads off yet using the laws of physics (leverage, timing, speed, being calm under pressure etc.)
Bob wrote:...correlative cosmology is not analogous to what most think of as guru/mystical and correlative cosmology is the lens from which they lived their lives
rojcewiczj wrote:One meaningful point of difference between an internal CMA approach vs typical MMA/Wrestling culture is the emphasis on passive power vs active. When I say passive power I mean the power to neutralize your opponents force using the balance of your own spine/structure/body. When I say active power, I mean the ability to generate force.
When I was at the open mat last week, wrestling with these MMA fighters and serious athletes, I found it very difficult to keep up with their explosiveness. They are very fast and strong with arms and body. That being said, I did find that proper movement of my spine in response to their techniques would essentially nullify their technique, which gave me a momentary window of power over them. The difficulty was then to keep moving, adjusting my spine in order to keep them engaged/nullified.
marvin8 wrote:
Christian (he) pushes his opponent while remaining relaxed. The second time, he feints a push. This lures the opponent to bend over and push both hands forward, a common response. Borrowing the opponent's forward momentum, Christian simply pulls opponent down and goes behind him.
dspyrido wrote:The one thing about this thread is the one sided view it has. Soft beats hard.
Why do one side? Would anyone recommend using only one hand or both? Would anyone recommend only legs or arms or better to do both?
I agree that "soft" is important but not at the detriment of avoiding how to build hard.
Build both. Know the range, strategies and where to apply them.
Yin-yang.
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