Bao wrote:"To do what he's doing you have to be using the power of the ground through a relaxed body."
Well, Nima has repeatedly said that he doesn't need to use the power from the ground. ...So I am not sure that he would agree...
(This is also one reason why I like Kaufman's explanation better. He (same lineage as Nima), says that he uses the whole body, or the body as a whole, and he doesn't leave the ground out of the equation. )
marvin8 wrote:Well @ 30:53 (and elsewhere), Kaufman says you don't have to use the ground. John and Nima seem to be saying the same thing.
marvin8 wrote:This video shows the different effects of different ways of generating power. Effectively these are just progressively more skilful ways of generating power, with each "level" just being a more relaxed way of organising the body and producing a more powerful force. ...
Floating centre refers to relaxing and opening all the joints so that the whole structure is springy and elastic. There is no need to brace off the ground, as demonstrated by walking on the spot. The person generating the force feels that the opponent's resistance does not effect them at all, and that generating the force is completely effortless. When the whole structure is springy and elastic the person resisting cannot feel where the force is coming from, and the force is elusive yet unstoppable.
Brace is bracing, not that the ground path is not there. I would highlight this instead: "When the whole structure is springy and elastic the person resisting cannot feel where the force is coming from,"
Bao wrote:marvin8 wrote:Well @ 30:53 (and elsewhere), Kaufman says you don't have to use the ground. John and Nima seem to be saying the same thing.
What he says is that he doesn't need to take it down and then up again, which is a different thing than to not use ground force/ground path. In the vid he also says that he uses the whole body, but that you always have an alignment to the floor so that you don't need too think about it. And instead of thinking about "taking force from the ground" you start to "turn the gears". So he acknowledges that the strength comes from the whole body, including the legs and feet.
But Nima have often and repeatedly said that he doesn't need to use the ground, period. And he also say that his "jin" comes from the spine, or by lengthening the spine.
Bao wrote:Brace is bracing, not that the ground path is not there. I would highlight this instead: "When the whole structure is springy and elastic the person resisting cannot feel where the force is coming from,"
... Also, at 0.40 the text says "grounded power".
Bao wrote:Again, what Nima says and expresses is not the same as here.
Well @ 30:53 (and elsewhere), Kaufman says you don't have to use the ground. John and Nima seem to be saying the same thing.
windwalker wrote:IME
As long as it’s looked at treated as a “ force “
One will always be outside the understanding of what’s happening or how to train a method
That focuses on setting up the conditions were by “it” happens through itself.
A big jump from causing or doing something to allowing something.
windwalker wrote:The reactions the first clip talks about, the author does not seem to understand why or how they are made. He keeps mentioning the word “compliant” apparently not understanding that all demonstrations by virtue of being demonstration are compliant.
Nor does he seem to understand the idea, if someone has control of the other’s center, they will react and move in ways that they may not understand or be aware of.
marvin8 wrote:Structural power ... The person generating the force is still bracing off the ground in order to produce structural power. Structural power still requires some degree of muscular exertion, and the person resisting feels that the force that is effecting them is solid and obvious.
Grounded power... The person generating the force feels that any resistance goes through their body and into the ground, making them heavier.
Floating centre refers to relaxing and opening all the joints so that the whole structure is springy and elastic. There is no need to brace off the ground, as demonstrated by walking on the spot. The person generating the force feels that the opponent's resistance does not effect them at all, and that generating the force is completely effortless. When the whole structure is springy and elastic the person resisting cannot feel where the force is coming from, and the force is elusive yet unstoppable."
"This video shows the different effects of different (three) ways of generating power."
Nima, Kaufman and Spence, students of CST, have described the same Floating Centre level of power generation, which is "a more relaxed way of organising the body and producing a more powerful force."
windwalker wrote:How would they see past their own experience, or what the teacher provided ,
if they were not already close to having an understanding of their own.
In most cases it requires giving up what one feels they already know.
Not such an easy thing to do.
Requiring a lot of inner clarity
marvin8 wrote:Floating centre refers to relaxing and opening all the joints so that the whole structure is springy and elastic. There is no need to brace off the ground, as demonstrated by walking on the spot. The person generating the force feels that the opponent's resistance does not effect them at all, and that generating the force is completely effortless. When the whole structure is springy and elastic the person resisting cannot feel where the force is coming from, and the force is elusive yet unstoppable."
Floating centre refers to completely relaxing all of the joints. This means every single joint is free to rotate in any direction. There is no bracing. Every joint in the body behaves like a beach ball floating in a pool, able to rotate force off effortlessly. There is no need to take force to the ground, because you do not allow the opponent's force into your structure at all.
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