Let's Analyze Bullshido With Mark Phillips (Fight Science)

[marvin8]

Fight Commentary Chats
Jul 3, 2021

Mark Phillips is a BJJ black belt, Judo brown belt, experienced Sanda kickboxing fighter, and a Wing Chun coach. Besides having an awesome and pioneering martial arts brand, Mark also thinks beyond martial arts into combatives, self defense, and lots of topics not usually covered by the traditional mma community. Enjoy this conversation and watch our bullshido analysis (we look at three bullshido clips together).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYoQYkDdmWI

[Finny]

Interesting. The first clip they discuss is the Shastar Vidaya stuff which some folks on this board are very fond of. Second clip is (I think) Jerry Alan Johnson doing some Baguazhang demos. Haven't watched the third one yet. Thanks Marvin!
Oh and a.. uh.. interesting.. interviewer that guy is.

[GrahamB]

I think he says that Shastar Vidaya is doing Kalaripayattu, which is incorrect.

I'd never heard about him before he started making Youtube videos. Good on him for doing Chinese marital arts and then getting a black belt in BJJ. If only more people did that the world would be a better place

[Finny]

Yeah I must admit that I didn't have time to listen to the entirety of the interview, I glossed over and just caught bits - sounded like his comments re the Shastar Vidaya stuff was compliance. And Mr Johnson's 'costumes'. I do agree though - I guess I can relate, studied Wing Chun for six or seven years, now trying to learn Judo.. thinking about doing some BJJ at some poin; our Judo dojo is very old school and we spend a good amount of time on newaza. I'd like to improve on the ground.

[GrahamB]

Yes, some of the old school judo is very ground orientated - there's so much less chance of injury compared to high-velocity throwing, so a lot of older judo instructors naturally drift more towards ground techniques.

[Finny]

mm - it's my understanding that the IJF rules being changed over the years has drastically changed the approach taken by competitive Judo dojo. Luckily I found a group connected to a koryu jujutsu system that is not competition focused. Recently the big upheaval has been the banning of leg grabs - ostensibly to limit the effectiveness of wrestlers shooting doubles in competitions. And the rule changes over the years have reduced the importance of newaza in competition also. We train all of the 'illegal' techniques.

[Bhassler]

While he was alive, Kano never allowed Judo to pursue inclusion in the Olympics, because he felt it would lead to all the sorts of changes mentioned in this thread and ultimately ruin the art.

[GrahamB]

mm - it's my understanding that the IJF rules being changed over the years has drastically changed the approach taken by competitive Judo dojo. Luckily I found a group connected to a koryu jujutsu system that is not competition focused. Recently the big upheaval has been the banning of leg grabs - ostensibly to limit the effectiveness of wrestlers shooting doubles in competitions. And the rule changes over the years have reduced the importance of newaza in competition also. We train all of the 'illegal' techniques.

It's a strange situation where what we do in BJJ is often closer to the original judo than Modern Judo is these days. However it's all trade offs. Not being allowed to grab the legs does have some positive benefits - it means you have to really be able to finish off a throw to a very high level. So you practice it over and over and over... in BJJ we can be much more lazy.

Take Uchi Mata for example - in Judo you need to really know how to finish off that throw, so it has to be perfect, whereas in BJJ if it doesn't work first time we just reach down and grab their ankle (ankle pick) and they fall over. It's a really easy follow up that you're just not allowed to do in Judo.

[GrahamB]

[Finny]

While he was alive, Kano never allowed Judo to pursue inclusion in the Olympics, because he felt it would lead to all the sorts of changes mentioned in this thread and ultimately ruin the art.

Yeah I remember reading that one time after a randori session at the Kodokan, he bemoaned his students' obsession with 'winning' at the expense of technical efficiency and skillful use of energy. He was much more into the whole 'maximum reward for minimum energy' and 'mutual benefit' than sportive competition, from what I understand.

It's a strange situation where what we do in BJJ is often closer to the original judo than Modern Judo is these days. However it's all trade offs. Not being allowed to grab the legs does have some positive benefits - it means you have to really be able to finish off a throw to a very high level. So you practice it over and over and over... in BJJ we can be much more lazy.

Take Uchi Mata for example - in Judo you need to really know how to finish off that throw, so it has to be perfect, whereas in BJJ if it doesn't work first time we just reach down and grab their ankle (ankle pick) and they fall over. It's a really easy follow up that you're just not allowed to do in Judo.

Haha ankle picks are one of my favourites in newaza - I have very long arms, and love getting into a clinch then hooking the bottom of a pants leg while driving forward - exactly like the thumbnail, just on knees. Working for an actual ankle pick seems like it would be a better approach though, perhaps I should look to change to that.