GrahamB wrote:I think the jackets are a big clue as to where the real origins of Shuai Jiao lie.
Steve James wrote:Oh, I got his argument that there's no clear linenage or tradition of shuai jiao (as a martial art) going back to the Yellow Emperor, etc. Of course, since people have been practicing some form of wrestling since that time, its a comes down to the definition of "martial art."
And there is absolutely no historical connections to other forms of wrestling that was prevalent in China any time earlier than this.
Steve James wrote:I'm not disagreeing with you because I'm interested in when that took place. Ming dynasty is fine. I'm looking forward to more specifics. Is the origin of a martial (or its transition from folk art to martial art) dependent on when the first texts were produced --or on the oral legends? Did boxing become a martial art/sport when the Queensbury Rules were published (1860s)? Or, are there particular techniques, practices, or training methods that didn't exist before a certain date? How would we know?
So how come there's nothing recorded about something that looks like Shuaijiao with those rules and techniques,
Steve James wrote:The jacket style is interesting. And, why do traditional Mongolian wrestlers wear sleeves but no gi?
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