Bhassler wrote:Bao wrote:Bhassler wrote:Where does this theory come from? The founder of Xinyi, which is the predecessor of Xingyi, was contemporary with Chen Wangting.
Cheng Wanting had nothing to do with Taijiquan, i.e. did not invent it.
Xingyi manuals/texts were used in the Chenjiagou. Don't think they had anything about Xinyi.
Ah, we're talking about that particular reboot of taiji "history". ... The only way there could be more origin stories about taiji is if they were Batman movies. (Don't be mad, people, I like Batman!)
I don’t understand what you mean with re-boot. I am only stating my own beliefs. Just because most people believe in something, as in a certain political agenda, it doesn’t mean that is true. There’s only one history and people who has either interpreted the history or made up stories. I always try to go back as far as possible to track and read original sources. And then I make up my own mind regardless what other people think. I use the same method for everything. Religious ideas, history or political propaganda campaigns, I do the same. If you go to the report where Adrian Zenz invents the ”1 million” figure of Uighurs being forced into ”concentration camps”, that all media keeps on repeating nowadays, he writes about that the Uighur population has decreased. But if you examine his own figures and statistics (which he has got from Chinese sources), you can see that actually proves that the population has increased. So listening to someone, or repeating what others say, is different from examining something and understanding it.
When Tang Hao wanted to research the history of Tai Chi, he had an agenda to prove that it originated in Chen Village. I have written about this before: In the Chen Family Manual (Chen Si Jia Pu), he found a note that Chen Wangting created something called Chen Quan, or Chen Boxing. This was Tang Hao's most important proof that Chen Wangting had invented Tai chi. But this note was actually added recently by Chen Xin. Chen Xin however actually never thought that Chen Wangting should have created Taijiquan. Instead, he believed that a person named Chen Pu should be regarded as the first Chen family member who learned and taught Taijiquan. So what Chen Xin meant by Chen Quan, or Chen boxing, was not Taijiquan, it was something else. In the Chen village today, many people still believe in Chen Pu and still do not believe in the Chen Wangting story. The Tang Hao invention of Chen Wangting has nothing to do with their own tradition, not written or anything verbally transmitted.
There are plenty of sources and things written about these things, as notes from early interviews with Chen Xin that are confirmed by different independent sources. Search, read and think by yourself.
Is there a reference to the xingyi manuals in question, or is it more hearsay?
I know that there are references to Xingyi books and texts in early published Chen material. From my own research, it seems logical that they brought it from Xingyi. But Heng Ha are also in other styles as Baji, that was also practiced by Chen practitioners. So I am not exactly sure. Heng Ha could be even older as well, as from old general "neijiaquan." Sal Calzoniere has made research on the manuals used in the Chen village, it would be interesting to hear what he has to say about this. But I have a feeling that he would agree.
but...okay