everything wrote:not sure about xingyi or bagua, but one approach people could take to taijiquan (since it's both soft and "internal") is to try to learn 100 lbs vs. 1000 lbs, then 10 lbs, then 1 lb and so on. There isn't any need to worry too much about extremes of mechanical leverage or "energy". We can just assume there is always some mechanical thing and always some "energy" of some sort, perhaps in different %.
If one never gets to "internal" via softer and softer "mechanical" approach to "4 oz", it doesn't really matter (assuming your main interest is MA and not IMA). If you have the "softest" judo or bjj for "minimum effort, maximum effect" with a soft art technique, you're probably doing fine to extremely well in your art. If you happen to still want to have "internal", you're probably working your way "down" in "force" to be sure you don't "muscle" something, so your "muscle" is "getting out of the way" in case you are trying to work a "different quality" or have your inner stuff merged with your outer soft MA. However, no idea what happens if your "internal" art is not a "soft art".
For example xingyiquan and yiquan don't seem to talk about being "cotton boxing" or something like that.
For me, personally, this isn't "the way" b/c it's too difficult to work on neigong let alone neijia.
For others, this seems like a theoretical answer to the "it must be mechanical or it must be energy" dichotomy/problem if you have this kind of problem.
汪永泉授楊式太極拳語錄及拳照
Wang Yongquan Writings on Yang Style Tai Chi Chuan
Translated by Richard Man,
http://facebook.com/groups/IMA.LiteraryTradition
用意不用力,用意則通;用力則意氣受阻,不通。
Use Yi and not force. Use Yi and your body can act as a 通 conduit; use force and you will cause the blockage to your Yi and Qi.
意、氣運行要舒緩自如,通暢順達。不能憋,要找出路舒散。
Let your Yi and Qi move freely, with no restriction or stoppage. Let it flow out with ease.
everything wrote:soft -> very soft -> "internal"
not sure about xingyi or bagua, but one approach people could take to taijiquan (since it's both soft and "internal") is to try to learn 100 lbs vs. 1000 lbs, then 10 lbs, then 1 lb and so on.
marvin8 wrote:Thompson lures (yin) Masvidal to jab. As Masvidal jabs, Thompson side steps and issues right cross:
windwalker wrote:I like this teachers work and ideas expressed....
A 3rd way of looking at it, intended results, by first examineing whats different
seeing if it aligns with the theory by which it's said to be different...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un979j09g5E&t=628s
He outlines 3 different ways, with the 3rd method being defined as different from the other 2...
marvin8 wrote:Not accurate/a difference in "western practices:"
• MMA trains hands, trapping, framing, clinching, trips, throws, submissions
• Uses crotch, waist, kua, shoulder, knees, elbows, whole body (e.g., Mike Tyson), etc.
• Trains inside of the body (e.g., movements are internalized, whole body)
• Double weights opponent thru no touch boxing (see Guo Shilei), not only unbalancing.
• Range includes non-contact to finish (e.g., push, strike, throw, submission)
• Hit and don’t get hit.
• Strike can turn into head control, etc....
Obviously. Boxing has various punches and ways to generate power (e.g., triangle, short punches). He compares apples to oranges, a rear hand punch to a lead hand push (illegal in boxing).
MMA lead hand push:
Boxing hook, uppercut and short punches can use "triangle:"
marvin8 wrote:Adam Mizner:
Feng Zhiqiang:
Chen Jian Qiang:
marvin8 wrote :
Again, he overgeneralizes both Waijiaquan and Neijiaquan
johnwang wrote:
Allow me to borrow someone's post in another forum that I agree with him 100%.
"Pushing your opponent away is not wise if he is serious about attacking you. You just give him a second chance!"
After you have taken your opponent down, if you take off, your opponent may not be able to chase you if you run fast enough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwobwMS1sl0
windwalker wrote:You feel the training method shown is the way it would actually be used ?
everything wrote:There is only “internal” as Sun describes. Randos on the internet - why would anyone think he or she can refute Sun? Makes zero sense.
BUT if we wanted to have layers of
- power chain
- leverage
- something Sun says but ppl don’t understand
- or just never understand Sun
We “win” if MA is our goal etc etc
everything wrote:... in any case, I don't want to go against my own admonition against believing we somehow know more than those masters, BUT SUPPOSE IF we wanted to make up our own definitions of "internal", ...
Bao wrote:everything wrote:... in any case, I don't want to go against my own admonition against believing we somehow know more than those masters, BUT SUPPOSE IF we wanted to make up our own definitions of "internal", ...
First you need to understand what Sun actually said. And that was in fact that he didn't believe that any martial art could be either internal or external.
everything wrote:Bao wrote:everything wrote:... in any case, I don't want to go against my own admonition against believing we somehow know more than those masters, BUT SUPPOSE IF we wanted to make up our own definitions of "internal", ...
First you need to understand what Sun actually said. And that was in fact that he didn't believe that any martial art could be either internal or external.
true. that part is "too advanced" for me, unfortunately, so I'd break it down like this at the moment:
- in the beginning when you don't know anything, MA is neither internal or external
- when you start to know a little, this division makes a little bit of sense. Sun also says he went through that (see the part where he goes to ask his teacher Song about this).
- when you're in that phase, doing those "internal" things (the things for which "Sun" is just my shorthand for "stuff those various masters did") is compelling (this is too big a subject, but should be the main subject on the main forum imho) as there is something a bit "different".
- later, there isn't any such division again. I don't understand this part at all as I can't get through the "internal" portion.
so the parts I'm trying to learn / talk about could be called "beginner in internal section" part.
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