direct experience

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direct experience

Postby windwalker on Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:36 am

posted to show some answers to questions I had and others might...

As to why someone would subject themselves publicly to something that
for many is quite controversial.

Looks like he enjoyed the experience, was able to laugh at his own reactions... :)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5rpP2qIRI0
Last edited by windwalker on Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: direct experience

Postby GrahamB on Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:46 am

All professional fighters are paid entertainers.

Follow the money.
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Re: direct experience

Postby everything on Wed Aug 03, 2022 12:39 pm

Only some very few of us (seemingly nobody) have experienced the receiving end let alone being the “pusher”.

And even then you basically have that same reaction (whether or not you could submit Fedor) where you cannot believe it.

Everyone else just writes endless BS, and worse, from some lofty perch
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Re: direct experience

Postby windwalker on Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:03 pm

everything wrote:Only some very few of us (seemingly nobody) have experienced the receiving end let alone being the “pusher”.



Apparently very few :)

Enjoyed the way he approached it, his reactions finding something he was skeptical about proven wrong....

His reactions are quite common, even among those working on or with this, where it's an everyday experience...

Takes awhile to understand the what, why, and how.
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Re: direct experience

Postby Peacedog on Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:29 pm

Not a fan of Adam Mizner for any number of reasons.

But he does have skill at this kind of thing.

What I will add is that people with a history of head trauma seem to be much more susceptible to this kind of thing. And I cannot see a career fighter making it out of that career field without more than a little of that.

Also, the Gracies were known for being fans of a variety of yogic practices and those in turn increase sensitivity to this kind of thing. It wouldn't surprise me if the man in question had some experience with qi gong, yoga, etc. And those also make pulling this kind of thing off much easier.
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Re: direct experience

Postby windwalker on Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:56 pm

Peacedog wrote:Not a fan of Adam Mizner for any number of reasons.

But he does have skill at this kind of thing.


What I will add is that people with a history of head trauma seem to be much more susceptible to this kind of thing. And I cannot see a career fighter making it out of that career field without more than a little of that.

Also, the Gracies were known for being fans of a variety of yogic practices and those in turn increase sensitivity to this kind of thing.
It wouldn't surprise me if the man in question had some experience with qi gong, yoga, etc.
And those also make pulling this kind of thing off much easier.


Very interesting :)

"this kind of thing"

;D

and what would that be ?

Marketing, skill set, ect...

There are a number of noted teachers and those working with this that can do the same things according to their level...

Do they fall into "this kind of thing" :-\

If one can do it, they will tend to find that it's very consistent among different teachers,
following principles and practices they use. by which it's said to work...

There is a science behind it , expressed in colloquial terms by those in the culture that developed it.

Never met Adam, have followed his work finding it interesting reflecting some aspects of my own....
don't quite get the hate on him,,,must be the net... :-\
Last edited by windwalker on Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:25 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: direct experience

Postby everything on Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:52 pm

lol wut. machida and werdum and the strongman i forget have "head trauma" so can be easily "manipulated" is the question / idea? hypnosis, belief, disbelief, paid actors, shills, etc. ... at some point you have to think about the ridiculousness of the made-up strawmen even while confronted with something that can look (and feel) "unbelievable". the participants even say "unbelievable" out loud and shake their heads (which is the same thing all of us probably say/said). that isn't the reaction if you want to have everyone fake it or if you're hypnotized.
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Re: direct experience

Postby origami_itto on Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:20 pm

everything wrote:lol wut. machida and werdum and the strongman i forget have "head trauma" so can be easily "manipulated" is the question / idea? hypnosis, belief, disbelief, paid actors, shills, etc. ... at some point you have to think about the ridiculousness of the made-up strawmen even while confronted with something that can look (and feel) "unbelievable". the participants even say "unbelievable" out loud and shake their heads (which is the same thing all of us probably say/said). that isn't the reaction if you want to have everyone fake it or if you're hypnotized.

Okay, but what's going on? It's not magic. It's just unusual. Playing it up to be something other than simple physics is dishonest.
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Re: direct experience

Postby Steve James on Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:35 pm

If it can be explained by physics or psychology, both are more likely. What needs to happen is a test that can only be explained by A,B,C, or Q. Otherwise, the causes are undetermined -i.e., they don't prove anything one way or the other.

In the long run, if it works, it doesn't matter.
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Re: direct experience

Postby windwalker on Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:41 pm

"If it can be explained by physics or psychology"


It is explained using the science from the culture that originated it.

Using this science, results are very consistent and repeatable

Find it very funny concerning what "science" is.
is non- Western science, science ;D




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7T7jTPK9Wg

a little translation of what he said :)

Taiji by Gao, ZhuangFei


(Tai Chi), it is both scientific and philosophical.

These two are combined together, using boxing principles and boxing methods.

So I think it means that if you don’t have the knowledge of Tai Chi and the understanding of the word Tai Chi,
you won’t be able to practice Tai Chi very well.

What is Tai Chi?

It is Wuji (infinity), Wuji generates Youji (extremes),

Youji generates two characteristics, two characteristics generate four images, and four images generate eight trigrams.

But what is Youji?

It is divided into virtual and real, or internal and external parts.

But what is Wuji?

Wuji is a circle, it is just an empty space.



:) very clear..
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Re: direct experience

Postby Steve James on Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:33 pm

It is explained using the science from the culture that originated it.


Sorry. Chinese scientists and western scientists have and use the same standards of proof when it comes to science. Barring language barriers, a Chinese physicist can teach a physics course at any western university, and vice versa.

I'd agree more when it comes to Chinese versus western "medicine." But, in this case, all I suggested was that there was a way to test what something was or wasn't. Again, someone can call something whatever they want, and it might still be explained by leverage. For me, the simpler explanation is better.

You're right that someone who doesn't understand something -because of culture or experience- can't explain it or teach it. They shouldn't try -because they're just pretending.
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Re: direct experience

Postby Quigga on Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:18 am

Windy, thank you.

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Re: direct experience

Postby everything on Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:41 am

explained using the "science" as in "a systematically organized body of knowledge on a particular subject."

but not "scientific method" as in "a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses." basically you need "statistically significant" differences to reject a "null hypothesis". but that may or may not tell you much. it certainly doesn't lead to a "xyz is not scientific" kind of hare-brained statement.
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Re: direct experience

Postby Quigga on Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:02 am

Embracing the world, hold Tai Chi in chest
What is embraced has a center
What is purified is clear
What is clear is light
What is light can move
What if what is embraced contains vital emptiness

Impermanence of all that is and isn't
The second part is called potential
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Re: direct experience

Postby yeniseri on Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:55 am

everything wrote:explained using the "science" as in "a systematically organized body of knowledge on a particular subject."

but not "scientific method" as in "a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses." basically you need "statistically significant" differences to reject a "null hypothesis". but that may or may not tell you much. it certainly doesn't lead to a "xyz is not scientific" kind of hare-brained statement.


Regarding research, a clinically significant finding backed up by < 0.05 (p value!) per statistical significance is a good thing but there is language ambiguity, trickery, damned lies that at times, demeans the actual direct finding of results resulting in the oft repeated chorus of Lies, Damned Lies statistics...in the modern parlance of understanding.
I have worked on a few clinical trials where the skill of the statistician is important because tests have been known, when improperly used, to "trick" (for lack of a better word ;D ) the ignorant into believeing a thing works when in fact the wrong test was used to come to a conclusion.

CMA lacks a didactical!!! approach to teaching when it come to the use of what is termed "internal" because the step by step acquisitong of goal X is explicitely left out and therein lies the problem.
If only, the structural elements of internal (CMA!) were taught like shuaijiao, qinna, etc then there would be a better understanding NTof "INTERNAL deveoid of tomfoolery, bs and just basic training methodology,

That is why sometimes 1/2 the stuff on this board is "alien" to me though I have heard it often repeated. All of my teachers have never mentioned 80-90% of that stuff but they always said to practice, practice and practice. They often repeated many of the movements many times and even though they said they did the same movement the same, with every movemtn, it always changed though that is a differnt matter.


Peacedog wrote:Not a fan of Adam Mizner for any number of reasons.

But he does have skill at this kind of thing.

What I will add is that people with a history of head trauma seem to be much more susceptible to this kind of thing. And I cannot see a career fighter making it out of that career field without more than a little of that.

Also, the Gracies were known for being fans of a variety of yogic practices and those in turn increase sensitivity to this kind of thing. It wouldn't surprise me if the man in question had some experience with qi gong, yoga, etc. And those also make pulling this kind of thing off much easier.


Personally, Mr Mizner does a great job from what I have seen. I have never met him
The Gracies had a good founding in capoeira so anything they found that multiplies their arsenal was a good thing for them. I even saw a few of their early vale tudo and when BJJ fell short, the younger fighter of BJJ often used their capoeira skills so training to shore up one's conditioning with another art is always positive on all grounds.

Ah still love CMA ??? ;D
Last edited by yeniseri on Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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