origami_itto wrote:I don't know that focusing on strength at all is useful. Generally we focus more on eliminating excess muscles than strengthening then directly.
There was a guy I used to push with the was thinking like that. He would put his feet on the couch and hold his upper body up with his arm in a peng shape. He had much bigger and more well defined muscles than me.
Every time he tried to push me out with his peng he pushed himself out instead. His arm stayed firm and rigid, giving me a huge handle to manipulate. Doesn't matter how strong your arm is if it's on an unsteady base.
We generate force, but not with direct muscular contractions (li). Force is simply the measurement of how much something accelerates. It says nothing about what generates the force.
There's a story about somebody wanting to fight Yang Liu Chan and in typical fashion he devised a non fighting way to settle the question.
They sat in chairs facing each other and put their fists together. The idea was to knock the other one over or whatever.
That didn't happen, what did happen is YLC sat there relaxed and calm while the other dude got red faced and sweaty and his chair made loud creaking noises.
When you see li against li, you'll often see the people involved shaking with the exertion, often holding their breath. When one is using good taijiquan, they will be still while the other is shaking. If they decide to oppose the force directly.
Stand like a scale, move like a wheel. Those are just two kinds of levers.
Force in taijiquan is generated through leverage, not direct application of muscles. The forms and jibengong if done correctly and consistently, will give you the freedom of movement and strength you need to make it work.
There are some good reasons to get your heart rate up and work your muscles directly to make them stronger but I don't believe that will help my taijiquan. Ymmv.
I do use weights and resistance bands and heavy bag and target bag but I strive to use them in ways that complement taijiquan shen fa rather than degrade it.
Quigga wrote:Bao and cloudz, I really like your posts.
wayne hansen wrote:Plenty of people have Smoothness but no sung
Some ballet performers for instance
cloudz wrote:origami_itto wrote:I don't know that focusing on strength at all is useful. Generally we focus more on eliminating excess muscles than strengthening then directly.
There was a guy I used to push with the was thinking like that. He would put his feet on the couch and hold his upper body up with his arm in a peng shape. He had much bigger and more well defined muscles than me.
Every time he tried to push me out with his peng he pushed himself out instead. His arm stayed firm and rigid, giving me a huge handle to manipulate. Doesn't matter how strong your arm is if it's on an unsteady base.
We generate force, but not with direct muscular contractions (li). Force is simply the measurement of how much something accelerates. It says nothing about what generates the force.
There's a story about somebody wanting to fight Yang Liu Chan and in typical fashion he devised a non fighting way to settle the question.
They sat in chairs facing each other and put their fists together. The idea was to knock the other one over or whatever.
That didn't happen, what did happen is YLC sat there relaxed and calm while the other dude got red faced and sweaty and his chair made loud creaking noises.
When you see li against li, you'll often see the people involved shaking with the exertion, often holding their breath. When one is using good taijiquan, they will be still while the other is shaking. If they decide to oppose the force directly.
Stand like a scale, move like a wheel. Those are just two kinds of levers.
Force in taijiquan is generated through leverage, not direct application of muscles. The forms and jibengong if done correctly and consistently, will give you the freedom of movement and strength you need to make it work.
There are some good reasons to get your heart rate up and work your muscles directly to make them stronger but I don't believe that will help my taijiquan. Ymmv.
I do use weights and resistance bands and heavy bag and target bag but I strive to use them in ways that complement taijiquan shen fa rather than degrade it.
it's not about 'focusing' on strength = did I say that.
it's a factor you need to balance
it needs to be factored in
strength, mobility, motor control
it's slightly broad - but that's all there really is..
just taking 'strength'; there are a bunch of types to talk about; that come into fighting
ignore them at your own detriment.
like I said skill comes first, I even said it in a separate post for effect.
so yeah if there is a focus, it's on motor control or should be..
do I need to say it again ?
you posted all that to apparently argue a point that was not contested whatsoever.
I've talked about the kind of strength work I do - for example.
the only difference is lately I've started swinging a kettle bell
the time is in good proportion to everything else I do
did you miss the point or something else..
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