backward walking in bagua?

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backward walking in bagua?

Postby everything on Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:49 pm

did/do you do it? e.g.,


also, this page https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/803592.shtml says things like:

Why do they do that?

A: There is a very old Chinese belief that walking backwards for 100 steps is equal to walking forwards for 1,000 steps.

Chinese have been walking backwards to maintain good health since the ancient times.

Walking backwards exercises muscles that are not used in ordinary walking, especially in the back, waist, thighs, knees and lower legs.



Walking backwards is more tiring than walking forwards and in general it will give you a better cardio workout and will burn more calories.

According to traditional Chinese medicine (TCM), walking backwards is a good way to relax one's back muscles; it can relieve back pain and can also benefit the kidneys.

Elderly people have weaker muscles and backward walking can strengthen different muscles than walking forward does.

Backward walking is also said to be ideal for people who have knee problems or injuries as it puts less strain on and requires less range of motion from knee joints.


I never heard of this. The kneesovertoesguy mentions it in some of his videos on knee rehab / knee exercise, so I did a quick search.
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Re: backward walking in bagua?

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:22 pm

Comes under the catagory what to teach when u have nothing else
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Re: backward walking in bagua?

Postby everything on Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:38 am

lol that's what I was kind of wondering

now the kneesovertoesguy has everyone taking it very seriously (sled pull backward, mainly)
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Re: backward walking in bagua?

Postby greytowhite on Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:18 am

Backward walking has a specific place in training. When you can spontaneously walk a backward circle in engagement with a partner it shows you have a certain level of competence. Training backward - the dragon has a tail. It's basically a different way of navigating body mechanics and reverse rooting.
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Re: backward walking in bagua?

Postby wayne hansen on Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:13 pm

I taught in a gym for a while where I had access to one of those walking machines that you could change the height and length of your gate
Every few minutes I would make it one notch higher then one notch longer
Then use it in reverse
I found the reverse mode strengthened your kicks
I can see reverse sled doing that
Repulse monkey has a real combat application the above clip does not
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Re: backward walking in bagua?

Postby everything on Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:44 pm

yeah his claim is the reverse walk (with resistance) helps you build whatever muscles you need for "braking". his "application" is basketball dunking rather than MA.

one "hack" without a sled is get on a treadmill, keep it turned off, then just walk backward and use the friction for the resistance. Guess the muscles on the front of the shins and the "VMO" are worked more, but I don't quite understand the claim/mechanism. I would expect the calf muscles are more important for deceleration.

He is also big on slowly adding strength to the ligaments and tendons (to protect/rehab the knees), which I think is a long-time goal/assertion from IMA and CMA as well, so the cross-over from these activities is interesting to me. A lot of people said proper IMA helped their injuries; it sounds like the same mechanisms at work (although one is for rehab, one is for MA foundations).
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Re: backward walking in bagua?

Postby Doc Stier on Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:58 pm

Backward Circle Walking is an integral part of the early Sun Style Pa-Kua Chuan training, along with all palm changes done with a backward step from a kou-pu stance. What is shown in the video clip isn't it. ::)
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Re: backward walking in bagua?

Postby wayne hansen on Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:06 pm

Is there one that does show it
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Re: backward walking in bagua?

Postby johnwang on Tue Nov 22, 2022 5:51 pm

Circle walking is to move into your opponent's side door, the blind spot, and force your opponent to use his leading arm to jam his own back arm.

What's the combat reason for the reverse circle walking?
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Re: backward walking in bagua?

Postby marvin8 on Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:06 pm

johnwang wrote:Circle walking is to move into your opponent's side door, the blind spot, and force your opponent to use his leading arm to jam his own back arm.

What's the combat reason for the reverse circle walking?

To lure (yin) the opponent to "where you want him to go," intercept and issue.

marvin8 wrote:Similar mechanics and timing. Wilder in post fight interview, "I was making him reach, trying to keep my distance. I had to circle. I set him up, allowed him to reach. Then when he reached, I attacked. "

In Wilder vs Helenius, Wilder:

1. steps back luring Helenius to follow 2. as Helenius shifts his weight to the front foot and punches, Wilder rolls back, then shifts his weight to the front foot and issues short right hand KOing Helenius:

Image


Circle and back walking drills.

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Jun 26, 2022

Barry Robinson teaches boxing for MMA based on footwork in this MMA training video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wiozBU9RqA&t=14m30s
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Re: backward walking in bagua?

Postby Giles on Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:10 am

marvin8 wrote:Image


I'm not qualified to say anything about bagua here, but this is indeed a very step-back repulse-monkey kind of moment. :D
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Re: backward walking in bagua?

Postby greytowhite on Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:59 am

johnwang wrote:What's the combat reason for the reverse circle walking?


Easy way to lead your opponent into emptiness, reverse direction in the middle of engagement - they might trip themselves. When fighting multiple people it's a great thing if you've already taken someone to use as a human shield. The reverse circle is also good for leg sweep strengthening - dragon has a tail.
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Re: backward walking in bagua?

Postby wayne hansen on Thu Nov 24, 2022 11:58 am

I can’t see what is shown as having any combat reasoning
Plenty of stepping in Ba kua to take care of your opponent and lead him into emptyness
In fact that is the whole ethos of Ba kua
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Re: backward walking in bagua?

Postby Doc Stier on Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:47 pm

There is a significant difference between stepping straight backward on a line, as shown in the above videos, and stepping backward on a circle.
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Re: backward walking in bagua?

Postby Michael Babin on Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:15 am

You rarely see backwards movement in bagua solo forms [don't believe me, watch youtube]. That makes sense if one assumes that the older solo forms were created by men who had actually been in fights. You don't have much hope of winning a fight if you can neither attack nor hold your ground effectively.

Let's hope that the better bagua teachers teach how to move backwards effectively in the interactive parts of their classes. For self-defense, there is some rationale to focussing on trying to cut to your opponent's blind side as they move forward; but that falls apart as soon as an opponent demonstrates the same type of skills and doesn't just move in straight lines. Having said that. a fierce straight line attack is hard to deal with if you don't know how to back-pedal effectively.

P.S. I'm an old guy now who uses senior aerobics classes to supplement my daily dose of solo forms, including my version of Old Eight Bagua [it's new to me, only five+ years of practise]. Some of the key exercises for mobility and balance in such seniors classes involve shuffling backwards and forwards at whatever speed is appropriate to age and fitness. So it might make sense for even younger bagua practitioners to spend some regular time in learning how to move backwards as well as circling endlessly.
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