Bao wrote:How would you teach yi, jin and qi to a beginner in a practical, useful manner?
Bao wrote:How would "qi" or "jin" be useful for someone who hardly can move balanced and coordinated?
Bao wrote:6 Harmonies: How would a beginner that haven't developed any qi or yi have use of "harmonizing yi with qi"?
Bao wrote:Give me a couple of examples of practical advice WW has written about, specifically meant for a beginner.
johnwang wrote:What's the reason that you want to train push hand, but you don't want to spar/wrestle? Does anybody have answer for this question?
johnwang wrote:What's the reason that you want to train push hand, but you don't want to spar/wrestle? Does anybody have answer for this question?
He [Chen Fa-ke] said, "Pushing hands is the foundation for sparring. It can only be taught if the students already know, from practicing the forms, what peng, lu, ji, an, cai, lie, zhou and kao are. The functions of those eight basic techniques cannot be taught if the students don’t know them from the forms. When students try to push hands with one another too early, they don’t know how to neutralize the oncoming force [for example], so they use strength in their attempts of counter-attack. Human tendency of fearing to lose causes this. When the opponent feels a resisting force, he will exert more force to counterattack it and, in the end, the one who is stronger wins the round. This is contrary to the Taiji principle of “not losing and not fighting back". This is dangerous because it reinforces what is wrong and students will never even begin to understand what Taijiquan is."
BruceP wrote:My same old tune when it comes to tai chi;
You can't really teach anyone anything - you can only bring out what's already there
BruceP wrote:Isn't it the teacher's job to recognize the expressions of those 'qualities' and impart an awareness to them whenever they reveal themselves. Further, the teacher should know how to help the beginner repeat the experience so it can be an ingrained point of entry, on-demand, for the beginner to play with on their own terms.
BruceP wrote:
“Give me a couple of examples of practical advice WW has written about, specifically meant for a beginner.”
Why are you asking me?
WW and I are so far apart in our approaches in terms of training, levels of understanding and experiences/life-paths that any agreement our trainings may have are entirely coincidental. I think we share the same ideas about a lot of things, but take a very different approach to putting those ideas into practice.
Appledog wrote:On the other side of the coin, there seems to be the opinion that push hands shouldn't be started until possibly many years after practice -- as many as 10. That there needs to be some kind of breakthrough into "something" -- I am not sure what -- dantian rotation, qi movement, not sure.
A teacher that echoes a certain amount of time regarding training certain things.
He mentions "datnian" rotation among other things...gives a rationale of why it should not be taught early..
He mentions 10yrs of training....also echoed by my teacher..only after having spent the time do I now have an understanding of why...this is so...
So I am here to ask the respected citizens of rumsoakedfist, when do you think a student, in general, should start push hands training?
I am not looking to push people into it "as soon as possible" neither do I want to delay someone's training. But, when is a reasonable, rational time to begin? Thanks.
p.s. I am talking about cooperative push hands of the various kinds, at least in the beginning, as described, for example, in the Wang Fengming book, or the Ma Hong video. Not necessarily competitive push hands, which I believe comes later.
wayne hansen wrote:Leaving out quite a few steps there
Walking 4 hands
Ta lu
San shou
San Da
It’s not if we spar or wrestle but how
wayne hansen wrote:All depends on the student his background and his aptitude
6 months in!!!!
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