MiaoZhen wrote:There seems to be legitimate historians in China that are both believing and disbelieving of the authenticity of the Li family and other more recent manuscript finds.
origami_itto wrote:I am going to start taking a drink every time you mention Fedor.
everything wrote:I'm not sure what "legitimate" means. This isn't really rocket science. It's stories... people are "arguing" about whether some mythical figure named Zhang really created "taijiquan". Physicists speculating on alien life seems like more realistic "scholarship".
If we know YLC learned from the Chen family, that still doesn't mean much does it? ... Who taught Michael Jordan? Tiger Woods? Fedor? Muhammad Ali? Tyson? Were they the inventor of Jordan, Woods, Fedor, Ali, Tyson "style"? Who taught Mozart? Should they be recognized for Mozart-style? How about Einstein?
Bao wrote:6H or “liuhe” is a very common Chinese expression. It just means something that stretches out through all directions, the liuhe bridge, the liuhe pagoda etc. The IMA 6 harmony theory comes from Xingyiquan and was adapted in the 20th century by the Chen clan and by Sun Lutang. The meaning is not the same as the general and widespread name.
Whole body coordination is certainly older than modern Taijiquan, but it was not called “6 harmonies”.
D_Glenn wrote:Liu He Men(quan) dates back to the Ming Dynasty. Way older than Xingyiquan.
Bao wrote:D_Glenn wrote:Liu He Men(quan) dates back to the Ming Dynasty. Way older than Xingyiquan.
Da Liuhemen quan is a Shaolin art, it is not based on the principles of internal/external 6 harmonies. Easy to see that there's no 3 external correlations in their performances, it's all disconnected, pure external limb driven movements.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrF8zmyJrg4
https://youtu.be/Qy-dlCp6U08?si=KFq1h_cTHr3v6S9h&t=36
D_Glenn wrote:Did anyone bother to read the link I posted?!?
Bao, it’s not Shaolin. Shaolin is Buddhist.
Liu He Men is Moslem. The Liu He / 6H comes from the Quran, then they used the term to describe harmonizing the six parts of the body in their martial arts.
GrahamB wrote:The point is the age and the name, not how it's being performed here.
Liu He means six harmonies and it is in arts older than Xingyiquan (according to DGlenn, although I take all Chinese claims to ancient history with a pinch of salt). Therefore the concept is old. You keep conflating it with "6 directions". I'm not buying what you're selling.
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